Changelog: Patch 11.0.0.6

Putting limits on the number of Big Guys is a perfectly OK thing to do, IMO. There are several other voices in the English (and French) forums that agree with that. However:

- The limit should NOT mention the players' STR characteristic. The limit should be defined as allowing a maximum of two "Big Guys" in a team. Which is what Cyanide originally tried to do with the "maximum two players with loner" thing but not quite nailed down. According to this***, Ogres, Treemen, Yhetees, Trolls, Minotaurs, Kroxigors and the Deathroller would be Big Guys. The goblin fanatic wouldn't be. He has AV 7, for Pete's sake. It's just silly to forbid a line-up (two trolls and a fanatic) that is allowed in the Goblin roster in standard Blood Bowl. I hate to use caps but this needs to be emphasised. GUYS, YOU HAVE JUST CHANGED ONE OF THE SACROSANCT STANDARD BLOOD BOWL ROSTERS WHICH GAMES WORKSHOP ALLEGEDLY FORBIDS YOU TO CHANGE

- IMO, and since other tweaks do not seem to be forthcoming, the Deathroller shouldn't just count as a Big Guy. It should count as TWO. Which would mean that if you buy a DR you wouldn't be able to buy an Ogre, a Yhetee or Treeman or whatever. I think that might even be enough of a fix. The Deathroller is overpowered, but it cannot be in two places at once.

A possible advantage of the above proposals (to summarise: a limit of two Big Guys; allowing the goblin fanatic not to be regarded as a Big Guy; regarding the Deathroller as two Big Guys) is that GW's approval may not be required.

***: (It would be open to consideration and playtesting whether Undead mummies or Khemri Tomb Guardians would be regarded as Big Guys; a hypothetical roster including Khemri players in a multi-racial set-up would have access to AG3 players from the other races and could be very, very nasty)

he Deathroller shouldn't just count as a Big Guy. It should count as TWO

2 Big Guys limit is what we need, we need it because of gameplay balance, some team can't have 3 BG, other can have 4... (I never talk about a Str 5 Limitation , but it's better than nothing )

Remember that according to the rules that Cyanide don't respect, you must have a limitation on positional too. I don't know if it's good or not, I admit.

The DR must suffer from the Secret Weapon skill (the other Gob too /!\), or be remove till Cyanide programm a sollution. (but count as 2 BG .... ...I think no)

Btw, the only different between the Str5 Rules and Big Guys rules* is to allow the fanatic or not to the counter

*And yeah, you can count Mummies as Big Guys because it will be nasty.

Your persistence in the pursuit of Truth and Justice is appreciated, my friend. I'm more of a pragmatist, though, and "politics is the art of the possible", as they say. I would love to see the DR gone and I have even made my own proposal to adapt the Secret Weapon rule to Dungeonbowl. None of that seems to have a snowflake's chance in hell of being implemented, unfortunately. That's why I'm throwing the new idea of regarding the DR as two Big Guys into the room.

Another exercise in futility, in all likelihood. Politics is the art of the possible, and as artists its seems we can only work with a fairly limited palette

[Tristelune]

Your persistence in the pursuit of Truth and Justice is appreciated, my friend. I'm more of a pragmatist, though, and "politics is the art of the possible", as they say. I would love to see the DR gone and I have even made my own proposal to adapt the Secret Weapon rule to Dungeonbowl. None of that seems to have a snowflake's chance in hell of being implemented, unfortunately. That's why I'm throwing the new idea of regarding the DR as two Big Guys into the room.

Another exercise in futility, in all likelihood. Politics is the art of the possible, and as artists its seems we can only work with a fairly limited palette

I like your thinking

Remember that according to the rules that Cyanide don't respect, you must have a limitation on positional too. I don't know if it's good or not, I admit.

It was not an essay on what the dungeon bowl rules *could* be for 3rd Ed - it was so far from being complete that I don't think we can criticize cyanide for creating their own interpretation of what the rules should be

That said - I agree that the real solution we need is to have proper positional limits implemented again. But this requires serious thought as the team compositions in 3rd Ed bear little to no relation to those in 2nd Ed, so we can't simply say 4 blockers, 4 blitzers, etc. I understand why cyanide avoided doing this hard work for the initial release - but for future development we need to look at this harder.

As a side point, Tristelune may have suggested this ST5 positional limit first - but we must remember that it was Games Workshop who finally chose this poor solution, so let's not shoot the messengers!

*sigh*

Wasted my preorder money on this it appears. Overreactive changes for "balance" when only 50% of the teams have even been released yet. Nevermind adding the things such as league support and bug fixes that would actually enhance the game. At least this saves me a solid $20-40 because I won't need to get any of the DLC.

So much potential..... sad to see it wasted.

GW may have decided on it but only because it was a solution put to them by cyanide (cyanide really should make use of their namesake).
how many other solutions did they put forward? probably none that the majority asked for.

Cyanide like to use the excuse that they cannot make changes to official rosters to remove the DR but their solution has changed an official roster as goblins can no longer run 2 trolls and a fanatic

Yeah, I said I was going to restart most of my teams so I could give them personalized names, but maybe I'll hang onto my Jade squad until a troll or the fanatic dies.

OMG what the f*** is this?

While the problem was that the death roller has no equal and dominates the pitch. The "solution" removes other bash teams ability to deal with the death roller by throwing strength against strength? I don't understand how this solves anything?

So, now the deathroller will dominate the pitch even more, without anything to really throw at it, especially in the narrow bb corridors.

Its amazing to me how much energy gets put into a "fix" that breaks other teams instead of toning down the rollers influence. While serious bugs go unchecked....

I'm so disappointed in Cyanide right now...as the deathroller gets even more powerful com pared to the other strength teams.

OMG what the f*** is this?

While the problem was that the death roller has no equal and dominates the pitch. The "solution" removes other bash teams ability to deal with the death roller by throwing strength against strength? I don't understand how this solves anything?

So, now the deathroller will dominate the pitch even more, without anything to really throw at it, especially in the narrow bb corridors.

Its amazing to me how much energy gets put into a "fix" that breaks other teams instead of toning down the rollers influence. While serious bugs go unchecked....

I'm so disappointed in Cyanide right now...as the deathroller gets even more powerful com pared to the other strength teams.

+1, Absolutely disappointed , grow a set. ...... think i am going to purchase some mushrooms for my game? In lieu of this? not a good compromise, no i will not. This is flat out stupid.
fix it quick.