Presentation of the Jade College

Well so why some race can have more than 2 Big Guys ??? The Troll race is useless, I dislike buying broken DLC.

Bright : Ogre + Death Roller (sic) Yeti. It's OK if we ban the Death Roller to a star player.

this doesnt work as all 3 have loner so you can only pick 2 of them.
the only teams that can have 4 big guys are the ones that dont have loner, so halfling treemen, ogre team ogres. every other team has a max 2 big guys.

and lets be honest the trees are not a problem as they usually get rooted or only sit in the end zone so waste of 2 players.

Well the issue with the tertiary team being useless if trolls had loner was raised when the team was 1st announced so they don’t really have any excuse.

They should have kept the old positional limitations and had big guys as 0-2 for all teams, they are far more powerful in dungeonnbowl as the enclosed passages make them harder to avoid.

We need to have snotlings as the tertiary race to have a “proper” greenskin team (hobgoblins don’t count the dirty dwarf loving traitors).

Trolls are probably the worst big guys around, seriously. Having 4 of them when the opponent fields a DR 2 Treemen and a yeti, is not having the upper hand at all.

To the guy that said team up the trolls in order to avoid 4+ on RS check, the assisting player must be non-really stupid.

I'd just make the 3rd race ogres (snoltings included) and voila, fixed. Or Chaos Dwarves ftw, they do team up in WH Fantasy Battles after all.

Well so why some race can have more than 2 Big Guys ??? The Troll race is useless, I dislike buying broken DLC.

Bright : Ogre + Death Roller (sic) Yeti. It's OK if we ban the Death Roller to a star player.
Rainbow : 2 Half Treemen + 1 Treeman + 1 Ogre ( Need Fix to treeman)
Light : Death Roller (sic) + 2 Half Treeman + Yeti (Need Fix to treeman and ban the Death Roller)
Grey : Mino + Human Ogre + 2 Ogres (Need Fix to Ogre)
Jade : 2 Trolls only .....fix but useless 3th race. Need another 3th Race.

Cyanide do an awful job here....They must change the 3rd race for Jade and put a limitation in order to have 2 Big Guys...Btw, if they make the death roller as a star player it will be ok.

Fix => Only two big guys per team. Do whatever you want but do it, and no like the Jade team...make the death roller as a star player too.
If you don't want to remove the death roller, so add a death roller to each team.

The Devil is in the details.

This pretty much most of my arguments before the game came out but what are you going to do? It's really not all that surprising considering they gave up on the game before they started and have the same imagination as GW.

Have to say that the Jade College has just re-ignited my interest in the game - the secret weps on the Gobbo team make an already chaotic game nutzoid. I love it

Have to say that the Jade College has just re-ignited my interest in the game - the secret weps on the Gobbo team make an already chaotic game nutzoid. I love it

I guess, but I'm not all that excited about a team that has two players that can kill themselves making a block or a throw, and another player that's completely unpredictable. Though the Pogoer will help marginally with leap at AG 3 and being possibly the only player on your team with leap, without easy access to pro or team rerolls this skill will hurt when you need it (played Slann enough to feel the ugly pain of Elves Disease).

The only saving grace for the Looney and Bombardier is the fact they are cheap enough to replace easily, but the number of doubles it will take to make them remotely useful compared to the other teams is tragically flawed. The fact that your completely cornholed into the same team practically ever single build is a waste of a team as I have made several points to in the forums.

It's great that a few marginal positional players on a team can spark peoples interest, but without a a cage that a bombardier can blow apart that player becomes marginal. The chainsaw without block, dauntless, and pro will just be a revolving door replacement nearly every match. Sure you can make him a ball handler with sprint, sure feet, and sure hands. In the hopes he can defend himself with the chainsaw, but with teams with ST 3+ and easy access to guard this player becomes marginal when caught on its own. The fanatic is too unpredictably useless at 70k to be considered worth while. The only time it could be considered worth while is if it's baby sitting both your trolls in the ends soon waiting until the ball comes to you before activating the trolls.

I guess, but I'm not all that excited about a team that has two players that can kill themselves making a block or a throw, and another player that's completely unpredictable.

I'm with Waldorf... I'm enjoying the Jade team weaknesses and all...win or lose. (Although winning would be nice. )

Goblins are some of the worst players in BB/DB. That's not news to anyone. However, I use them because they are underdogs to begin with, which makes each win even more appreciated. Yes, the unpredictability of the chainsaw, bombardier, and fanatic is a detriment, but when it does work, it can be pretty rewarding. Especially when beating a higher tiered team.

[Rogue]

It's great that a few marginal positional players on a team can spark peoples interest, but without a a cage that a bombardier can blow apart that player becomes marginal. The chainsaw without block, dauntless, and pro will just be a revolving door replacement nearly every match. Sure you can make him a ball handler with sprint, sure feet, and sure hands. In the hopes he can defend himself with the chainsaw, but with teams with ST 3+ and easy access to guard this player becomes marginal when caught on its own.

The Bombardier can throw across traps, and do so with relative impunity. It doesn't take a cage to make him worthwhile - dropping a bomb in a hallway can clear a path for a blitzer to come through.

The Looney is the ultimate assassin (for gobbos!). Just this morning I look out a 160TV Death Roller with a 40TV Looney, and even if the chainsaw failed, the Roller still had to make a Precarious Position roll to hit back. The looney needs some thought to use well, as he needs to be kept back until the right moment to strike. Picking lower AV players as targets also increases the likelihood of a successful attack.

The fanatic is too unpredictably useless at 70k to be considered worth while. The only time it could be considered worth while is if it's baby sitting both your trolls in the ends soon waiting until the ball comes to you before activating the trolls.

I don't use the fanatic, because I tend to agree with the lack of reliability in a confined dungeon area.

The main Jade team, for me at least) revolves around the Orc players. Blitzers and Black Orcs are strong hitters in a dungeon arena, and the Goblins are there to provide assists, risk their green hides opening chests, block push-back paths to ensure an opposing player goes in the trap, etc.

The main Jade team, for me at least) revolves around the Orc players. Blitzers and Black Orcs are strong hitters in a dungeon arena, and the Goblins are there to provide assists, risk their green hides opening chests, block push-back paths to ensure an opposing player goes in the trap, etc.

Well of course it is and it always has been, but that's besides the point. The failed point I was try to make over the course of this forum subject. Is Why did the Grey College get such amazing benefits while Jades got the shaft ? (and yes I did see this coming before the game even got released with the only rule 2 loners)

The Jade team has always been a challenge team, so is the Amethyst team, (though if you're use to playing Skavens its not that bad of a deal, sadly if your use to playing Underworld it's a slightly gimped Underworld, in the way of gobbos and Skaven with no normal Mutation access and added gutter runners, team with Minos) just like the Halflings and Gobbos since the inception of BB. Those two teams were the challenge teams that had a margin of chance. The problem becomes when have a Rule set made back in the land of 2.0 and 3.0 where Ogre teams did not exist, Big Guys were never on team roasters, Gobbos secret weapons were not as well, and most fancy positional players never existed either.

Even though anyone paying attention before the game was released realized that these issues would be generally popping up. Now the Grey Wizards have a ridiculous advantage of having 2 none loner Ogres plus two more big guys, if you've played Chaos Pact on a fair basis managing more than 2 big guys really isn't a real issue (though back in the 3.0 days it was more fun being able to pick Ogre, Troll or Mino for your Chaos team for BB), the fact that the Grey Wizards can now pick up more Beastmen the Human counter parts is more of an advantage than most people think. Where as the Jade team got completely shafted. Even before the game was released it was fully understood by a good portion of the players on the forums that the Jades Third Race was completely redundantly worthless as the rules stood even when we argued about the lack of positional restrictions.

Side Rant:
Even though there are some that say there never were any restrictions in the first place, which I have never seen in any version of the original conception of the game. If there is I would be more than happy to look at it because I don't have the original rules where the game was just elves, humans and dwarfs. I just have the 3.0 rule sets and all of them have the positional restriction on them. Though this was argued in length earlier that if it was game breaking it would be fixed in later dates, so I'm going to get off this rant and get back to the original point in hand.

Though yes the Gobbos do get some shinny weapons in DB, but the problem with their shinny weapons in DB is that depending on the size of the dungeon the shininess of these additions pale in over all effectiveness and become extremely situational. Though there is probably more to the story of taking out the Death Roller which is awesome when it does happen, but a one-on-one 3d6 against you on either attempt is incredibly lucky, even if you had the +5 assists just for a 50% chance of knocking down a non block DR, 25% if 2d6 against, and 12.5% with 3d6 against. This not taking in the undesirable effect of both down where you also take a 3 penalty to the armor roll as well (3.6% chance on a 3d6 with out BD).

Though it would be funny to see some Elves in the DB with Diving Catch to defend the ball carrier from the bombardier (and yes Diving Catch works against bombs. If not it's a bug), but it'll be so situational that it would be a waste of a skill funny all the same, Yes you can knock down the opponent 50% of the time with a bomb that doesn't scatter on a poor throw and hits the empty square you're aiming for. These 2 players compared to the number of positional players and other advantages that the other teams enjoy is yes marginal at best. Though yes you can chose to play Gobbos and Halflings in BB for the challenge and you knew before hand that it was a challenge, but the problem is before the game was released there were a mentioned concerns that the Jade college gets completely screwed on the Loner only rule, but the fact that other teams get a major boost to their teams while the third race of the Jade team is worthless to say the least is an Epic Fail of Biblical portions in proper game design.

With the money rules in 6.0 compared to 2.0-3.0 losing your Orcs becomes even more painful. Sure you took out a 160k Death Roller with a 40k Gobbo , I'm always happy to hear that happen even against me as poetic irony, but if your on the losing end of nearly every game your team is not advancing to make any worth while advances to replacing your Orcs anytime soon. Sure you can live on your Gobbo Journeymen until you can replace them, but if teams are systematically taking out your slow progressing Orcs (in which they should, if not you are playing against a lot of generous players) you will be in a running rut where a Death Roller not easily replaceable, but a coach can easily change tactics and make up losses where the Jades a screwed on that case and point by trying to buy back the same exact Orcs. I can harp on the point longer than it needs if point is not coming across, but yes the all mighty and awesome 4 Gobbo additions more than makes up for the advantages that any team has now with the lack of positional rule, the useless crap of a third race where the Gobbos already have that area covered, and the new unnecessary changes made to other teams.

Though yes you can chose to play Gobbos and Halflings in BB for the challenge and you knew before hand that it was a challenge, but the problem is before the game was released there were a mentioned concerns that the Jade college gets completely screwed on the Loner only rule, but the fact that other teams get a major boost to their teams while the third race of the Jade team is worthless to say the least...

I agree here... For the third race and loner I don't understand what the design thinking was.