Presentation of the Bright College

The game is predominantly based upon outdated rules (and unbalanced from what I've been told). The swapping of Humans and Dwarfs in the 0-16 and 0-6 roles has been stated as because they didn't want two colleges with the same main race. Apart from the Loner restriction, what makes you think anything in this game is designed around balance? Brokenness is bound to appear.

If it's deliberately even less balanced than the original rules then I doubt there will be many sales at all. I, for one, won't bother if this is the case.

It's not as if the original rules are hard to apply - you can recreate the logic in a simple excel spreadsheet.

I don't think it is going to be so unbalanced. Teams are still based on TV like everything else in these games. You can run a stripped down 11-man team with 'perfect' positional players. But open a chest and lose a player to injury, step on a teleporter and you have a 1-in-6 chance of being sent off the pitch, or worse the idea that your opponent has every opportunity to build something just as crazy. It is more a case of seeing what works. Bloodbowl has never tried to maintain balance e between rosters (compare halfling team to Skaven), there has always been balance implied by the cost of an individual player- and Dungeonbowl opens it up to a wider variety of players for every coach.

Bloodbowl has never tried to maintain balance e between rosters (compare halfling team to Skaven)

There is a balance between rosters insofar as the teams are within the win% set by the tier into which they are placed. That balance is what much of the game is based around.

there has always been balance implied by the cost of an individual player

Sorry, but that's wrong. TV is NOT an independent arbiter of the on-pitch value (effectiveness) of a player outside of the context of the team. TV costs of a player have been massaged within the contexts of the teams they are in, raised and lowered on a per-player basis depending on the effectiveness of the team through playtesting, and even now a lot of people say that these are not right.
You can't take individual players out of the teams they are in and put them into the mix and claim that whatever you come up with is balanced because the TV cost is the same. Roster design is an integral part of that balance, and throwing that out in this manner is crazy.

The most Gimped Teams will be the Amethyst (Skaven, Gabbo, Mino) and Jade (Gobbo, orc, Troll) under the new rules assuming the DB Rosters will be the same, and I some how doubt they will change.

Golden (Orc, CD, Ogres) and Grey (Human, Chaos, Ogres) could be the best bash teams in the game.

Amber (DE, Orc, Skaven) under the new rules will be the most flexible team in the game under the new rules.

Even with bomb chests and teleporters Your not going to be using your most expensive players in these in devours .

Bloodbowl has never tried to maintain balance e between rosters (compare halfling team to Skaven)

There is a balance between rosters insofar as the teams are within the win% set by the tier into which they are placed. That balance is what much of the game is based around.

there has always been balance implied by the cost of an individual player

Sorry, but that's wrong. TV is NOT an independent arbiter of the on-pitch value (effectiveness) of a player outside of the context of the team. TV costs of a player have been massaged within the contexts of the teams they are in, raised and lowered on a per-player basis depending on the effectiveness of the team through playtesting, and even now a lot of people say that these are not right.
You can't take individual players out of the teams they are in and put them into the mix and claim that whatever you come up with is balanced because the TV cost is the same. Roster design is an integral part of that balance, and throwing that out in this manner is crazy.

Dode, I generally agree with you but halflings cannot have the same win % as Skaven. I don't believe that at all.

Most teams are much more balanced, but Blood Bowl isn't equal. I've enjoyed your posts on the matter in the past (some teams hit that TV sweet spot before others, cpomb being a little OP'd, etc.) But what the point I am getting at is individual positions use cost of players to value teams. A goblin costs 40k, Skaven lineman w\ wrestle 70k, and wardancer 120k. Now assuming you are playing a match against a player with an equal value- you might have the opportunity to field a lot of special players in terms of positions- but you will not be able to afford a 'perfect' team. It is a cost/benefit analysis we all do as coaches.

Dungeonbowl opens things up a bit more than we have been used to as long time players, but it does so for everyone and in interesting ways. Balanced? Balanced enough? Bottom line for me is it is gonna be fun to play.

Dode, I generally agree with you but halflings cannot have the same win % as Skaven. I don't believe that at all.

I never said they did. Halflings are tier 3 (30-35%) and Skaven are tier 1 (45-55%). The balance of the game is measured by assessing whether those win%s within the brackets as defined.

the point I am getting at is individual positions use cost of players to value teams. A goblin costs 40k, Skaven lineman w\ wrestle 70k, and wardancer 120k

They are only of that value within the context of that team. There is a set of guidelines used to value players, and that set of guidelines includes the following statement:

Code: Select all

3) Any player's final calculated price may be modified by 10k more or less from the calculated
price to achieve overall team balance. This is pretty important to balancing a roster in the long run.

Now assuming you are playing a match against a player with an equal value- you might have the opportunity to field a lot of special players in terms of positions- but you will not be able to afford a 'perfect' team. It is a cost/benefit analysis we all do as coaches.

I agree with you there, but that is still relevant within the context of a race. When you start being able to play BOBs, WEs and GRs in one team then it gets crazy. The limitations on positionals in the DB rules weren't placed there for no reason.

Dungeonbowl opens things up a bit more than we have been used to as long time players, but it does so for everyone and in interesting ways. Balanced? Balanced enough? Bottom line for me is it is gonna be fun to play.

Of course it does, but it's still a game, and as such should be fun. Generally that means a "fair" matchup (or at least one where you know that you are handicapped). DB certainly hasn't been tested or balanced to the extent of BB, but what has been played is generally found as enjoyable, and the balance is a part of that enjoyment. And, like I said, it's not exactly hard to stick to the rules as indicated - why would they NOT be doing so?

I suppose the issue of balance is less important to me than the character of the team. Sadly as the original Dungeonbowl was hardly playtested and this new version hasn’t been at all then I am sure some of the colleges will be vastly superior to others.

Case in point for normal BB would be the human catcher who is a mediocre player on the human team and overcosted by 10K. However if you could take 0-2 on a dwarf team that would be insanely broken.

Since they look to have decided to follow the old college make ups as closely as possible so far, that means we will be missing out on a 3rd of the teams Amazons, Lizardmen, pro elfs, Nurgle, Khemri, Necromantic not even counting the 3 NAF approved ones, I don’t think Chaos Dwarfs will be in it either. So there will be quite a bit of unnecessary duplication, of those we’ve seen the light and bright both look kind of samey.

I just don’t get why they ignored the sensible team restrictions that were in both 2nd and 3rd edition teams, but are rigidly following the team make ups from 3rd edition. Surely they already have the 20 teams and it can’t be that hard to adjust the mixture of races? 4 evil and 4 good teams with a couple of mixed/neutral ones would have been interesting. I’d have liked them to be either similar in style (so bashy with other bashy or hybrid but not agile) or races that naturally go together (say amazons, norse and lizardmen).

Not so sure about Chaos Dwarves: they're in the Golden Wizards college (Orc/CD/Ogre).

And they've not posted more colleges yet - it might turn out that some tweaks were made to team composition to allow the newer races a place in the game.

Hi again,

• The rules document states "If you can use players that don’t fit into any of these categories (Dark Elf Witch Elves, for example), then you may have up to two of them." Does that mean for each of these categories or is the 0-2 rule applied over the entire team?

This rule doesn't exists in our version (as well as "4 blitzers, 4 runners, etc"). It is replaced by 2 players with the Loner competence max in a team.
So...you can have all the blitzers from the main team, plus the blitzers from the secondary team, plus 1-2 blitzers from the tertiary team? Funky.

• Can I purchase a Star Player as part of my roster?

Yes but only before the match, in the inducment stage and only for the duration of the match (like in the BB rules).
So...that's a no, you _cannot_ purchase a Star Player as part of your roster?

I hope that answered your questions.

It was very informative, thank you.