Presentation of the Bright College

If they are changing the original rosters then this doesn't become too much of a problem, ...

Well, at least in the Bright College we know they are changing the original roster. They switched dwarfs and humans as the main race in this instance.

If the rosters are going to stay the same as they are now The Amber Wizards will out class every team on the roster as the rules stand now, and most of their roster is cheaper and extremely flexible to specialization.

The cheapest dark elf is 70k if that stays as the main race, which is on par with the dwarf players of the Light College. None of the members of the main team have access to Strength skills except on a double. So for your Orc choices, I would assume people would either go 80K Black Orcs or Blitzers. If that is 0-6, you could pick up 0-4 goblins at 40k which might help with costs but in doing so you lose the access to all but Agility skills which you already have covered by the Dark Elf players. If the Skaven remain 0-2, what do you take? A pair of Gutter Runners at 80k once again or pick up a Rat Ogre for one of your 0-1 Loner choices? The GR's definately give you lots of move and dodge, but they are most useful for the 4AG. I agree the Amber Wizards team looks awesome, but I don't see any discounts in the cost of players over the other teams.

I am definately looking forward to the next few teams.

I was wondering if we really need to follow the 2nd or 3rd edition college make ups at all. We already have an issue that big guys used to be separate so why not just take the 10 main tier 1 races and add extra positionals from other teams?

So you could take the human team and keep the option of 0-6 Dwarfs but for each Dwarf Blitzer that is one less human blitzer the same with dwarf runners and human throwers. Rather than allow access to the full norse team maybe just let them take 0-2 Ulfwereners.

I think you almost have too much choice if you give people 3 teams to choose from, especially if the tertiary team has amazing players on their roster like wardancers, bull centaurs, werewolves or gutter runners (rat ogres suck and are overcosted whilst gutters are probably the best value for money players in the game so you’d certainly want them though possibly a stormvermin to get claw).

However I don’t think it is necessarily a bad thing that some teams will be stronger than others, after all that is one of the great things about normal Bloodbowl. I would want to avoid mixing 2 very strong teams like Orcs and Dark Elves which make up for each other’s weaknesses so would try to avoid a team with easy AG4 and agility access being combined with a team that had plenty of AV9, ST4 and strength access.

Well, at least in the Bright College we know they are changing the original roster. They switched dwarfs and humans as the main race in this instance.

To be honest that's really not much of a change or an advantage.

The only big difference is the team is faster at the cost of durability. In a 16/24 format if a Human gets knocked out you lose the player for your turn and place him back in the game the next round after in a completely random position, but you are still down a man when you place a new guy on. Where as the Dwarfs being knocked out you only lose him for that turn, and you don't lose him in key positions in bottle necks. Also your catchers are weak and you will be waiting on your slowest player because your not going to open a chest with your AV 7 ball handler or get smacked around without support. If they decide to change the 16/24 format to the original rule no limits. This now makes the Bright Wizards a weak Golden Wizards. If your going to go bashy they can do it soo much better. A slow team with a decent defense, better durability and 6 STR 4s. True the cost will take a while to field them all and level them up, but depending on your league the cost really could mean nothing if its a long league. I'm not hiding behind the AV9, but I have four CMBPO waiting to strip you of yours Av8 - Av9. Which is a good portion of the Bright Wizards team and fouling becomes a grand old hobby where Golden Wizards don't have a lot of soft targets.

The cheapest dark elf is 70k if that stays as the main race, which is on par with the dwarf players of the Light College. None of the members of the main team have access to Strength skills except on a double. So for your Orc choices, I would assume people would either go 80K Black Orcs or Blitzers. If that is 0-6, you could pick up 0-4 goblins at 40k which might help with costs but in doing so you lose the access to all but Agility skills which you already have covered by the Dark Elf players. If the Skaven remain 0-2, what do you take? A pair of Gutter Runners at 80k once again or pick up a Rat Ogre for one of your 0-1 Loner choices? The GR's definately give you lots of move and dodge, but they are most useful for the 4AG. I agree the Amber Wizards team looks awesome, but I don't see any discounts in the cost of players over the other teams.

Since you like quoting TVs and costs if you work out which positioning and the TV effectiveness the ball handlers out preform most teams and reach the TV effectiveness early on bashers. Id post it here but this post is going to be long enough as it is.

Really Gutter runners or a crappy Rat Ogre that's really lacking vision. Considering there are Throwers that move at a decent clip and Skaven Blitzers can move with the DE Blitzers, and the DE Runners with GAP that can stand on their own against most teams with agi 4. Gutters are not just only good for Agi 4, but the number of possibilities that I can make on doubles. Very long legs and Leap give me enough freedom of movement around the dungeon it'll get scary quick. Even leap on Ball Carrying DE Blitzers will make short work of choke points with CMBPO Rats.

TV 1000

4 DE Blitz, 3 Orc Blitz, 2 Gobbo, 2 Skaven Blitz, 2 RR
3 DE Blitz, 3 Orc Blitz, 3 Gobbo, 2 Skaven Blitz, Apoth 2 RR/ 3 RR

Then a bunch of variants after that. I could go on all day long.

Well even if I really wanted to I can start with all 10 Blitzers and a Journey man a DE lineman loner. Even though I can field 8 GS and 8 GA the GAs are worth their weight. GAs have access to majority of the reroll saver feats (dodge, catch, sure feet, sure hands, pro) and easy access to survivability feats ( dodge, fend, side step, block) though GS has (block, fend (not really a good one for killers or when you have stand firm), stand firm).

Brights have 4 - 6 GAs were 2 can be caught on their own without giving up double dice all the time. GS, GP, and G Majority will be GS but in the 16/24 rules lacking a good ball carrier will hurt.

Where as

4 Human Blitz, 2 Dwarf Blitz, 2 Norse Blitz, followed by...

3 line man 3 Rerolls or 2 RR and apoth/ 1 lineman 2 catchers 2 rerolls

Can replace the Dwarf Blitzer with 2 Blockers and replace the line man with catcher. I would prefer the thrower more ball control and more sustainability if caught on his own.

50% chance for human catcher to pick up the ball while the thrower has a 75% chance with Sure Hands. Any DE player 66.67% or 88.89% with Sure hands, but no one starts with that skill.

Now Brights have human Lineman replacements for journey men while Amber has DE Lineman.
Brights get a 50k 6 3 3 8 G compared to a dwarf 70k 4 3 2 9 block, tackle, TS or DE 70k 6 3 4 8 GA. The trade off doesn't come close depending on what gets taken out.

Even if they change the Main race to Orcs, DE, Skaven the problems got even greater for most teams. Skaven, DE, Orcs or change Orcs and DE will sort of Nerf the team. One way bashy the other way in ball control, but it doesn't take away a lot of flexiblity.

Bloodskull - your pick up %s are wrong as you get +1 for picking up.
I agree with Spubbbbbbbbbbbba that there are far too many combinations of players for my taste but who knows it may be fun even though there will be no semblance of balance!

I agree with Spubbbbbbbbbbbba that there are far too many combinations of players for my taste but who knows it may be fun even though there will be no semblance of balance!

I for 1 love more combinations, it means 2 players can play the same team but with a different style
i look forward to changing my line ups to how i want to play the team rather than be dictated by the line up (as is now with dwarf teams in BB... thats why i never play them)

The trouble is you go from having a choice of 5 positionals on the normal dwarf roster to having 16 in this college, though you can only take a maximum of 2 from the 6 possible norse choices.

Whilst initially it sounds great and more fun the danger is that teams lose their individual character. Plus if every team has fast catcher types, tough blockers, cheap fodder and a few big guys then they all end up rather samey. This team is not too bad as the humans dwarfs and norse are not massively different and humans are rubbish and the main team.

Bloodskull - your pick up %s are wrong as you get +1 for picking up.

Yes, You're right and I should have known better and thanks for pointing it out.

Without a TZ on the ball for pick up
DE's, Gutters: 83.33% and 97.22% with SH
Human, Skaven, Norse, Few Dwarves: 66.67 and 88.89% with SH
rest of the Dwarfs: 50% and 75% with SH (not a likely option but still)

Though I do like some of Spubbbba's Ideas, but why did they walk away from the original rules that where already in place. Though people will quote that I commented back in this forum that the rules were back in the LRB 3 days, but that still does not mean they are not technically valid. The units in blue are add-ons that are not on LRB 3, though in LRB3 you could still buy Big Guys for your team they were not considered as a Racial member of your roster, in the format of 4 Blockers, 2 Blitzers, 4 catchers, 2 throwers and 2 special. Orange are house ruled, so they could be considered as special or passers.

Amber
Blockers: BOB
Blitz: All 3 races
Catchers: Gabbos, DE Runners (GAP), Gutters
throwers: orc, skaven
special: witch hunters, Trolls, ogre rats, assassins

Golden
linemen: hobbos, orc
Blockers: BoB, CDs
Blitz: orcs
catchers: gobbos
throwers: orcs
special: Bull centaur, ogres Trolls, mino

Amethyst (corn holed either way)
Lineman: gobbos, rats
Blockers: N/A
catchers: Gutters
blitz: rats
throwers: rats
special: Minos, trolls, ogre rat, and gobbo special

Bright (dwarf,human, Norse), (Human, Dwarf, Norse)*
Line: Human, Norse
Blockers: DB
Blitzers: all three
catchers: humans, norse,dwarf runners (GP)
throwers: human, norse
special: trollslayers, death roller, yhetee, Norse werewolf, ogre

Lights(dwarf,halflings,norse)
Line: halflings, Norse
Blockers: DB Though we considered them Lineman because you can barely reach 16 players depending on your picks for Norse
Blitzers: Norse, Dwarf
catchers: norse,dwarf runners (GP)
throwers: norse
special: trollslayers, death roller, yhetee, Norse werewolf, Treemen

Jade:
Line: Gobbos, orc
Block: BOB
Blitz: Orc
Catch: orc Gobbos
throw: Orcs
Special: Trolls, Gobbo Special

Even with these few you still can make decent competitive teams. Though a few of them are still cornholed.

... then no one will want linemen.

hehe. Just looking up to page 3 that I would say the older version of Dungeonbowl we didnt ever take lineman either! Really it was all blitzers, blockers, big guys and cathers.

Mixed race teams might take a bit of getting used to for some. In general it made the teams very similar in that evryone had 2 big guys and loads of blitzers. Linemen were indead not that common.

Orc lineman-lol! players with over 20 years experience dont even know what these are<

... there are far too many combinations of players for my taste but who knows it may be fun even though there will be no semblance of balance!

I sort of agree, sort of disagree.

Yes lots of teams will look the same, but that gives us balance as everyone is running 4 blitzers, 2 big guys, 2 specials, 4 blockers and 2 throwers.
So overall most sides should balance up and probably more expensive lists with less rerolls than we are used to seeing.

DB Teampicker.rar

Positions are selected in accordance with the position name in CRP.

I consider all the "Runner" positions to be catchers in the DB terms. How there can be a better catcher then a Gutter Runner? If not some teams with more flavor in the position name would suffer without a reason.

Light - I'm not sure, but why not to put Dwarf Blockers under 4 blockers restriction to encourage buying some Halflings. The same with Bright
Grey - I would put Chaos Warriors into blockers category.
Dark - Undead Ghouls and DE Runners are catchers, and Wights are blitzers. Otherwise you're left only with two interesting players and many linemen.