Death Roller

I just told you that good coaching can take a DR out of the game.

You are very confident and seem to have the impression of yourself being a "good coach". I have played a couple of games myself and wouldn't say i am that good to make such a statement (hell, I have failed twice to win the final in SvS in the last 3 seasons ).

Normaly when facing an opponent at the same (skill-)level with any team, it comes down to luck. And here comes my point: if two equally good coaches play against each other - with roughly the same dice luck - the one with the DR or (to make that statement more generic) any other secret weapon will win in more then 51% of the games. That's because (assuming, that BB is balanced, which it is NOT, but its closer to it then DB) SW is ignored in DB, but does have a drawback in BB.

And that's what "balance" is about. I dont get why we are talking about treeman. All the skills they have are working in the DB setting. It comes down to personal reference, if a coach wants to use them or not (I do for example).

Nasty - I am eager to see how you play! Maybe you are online later (I am GMT+2 and will be at home anytime you can play after about 15:00) and I would really like to see you playing against my DR-Team. I am just curious, how you do on the pitch, since you are so confident about beating any team with a DR.

My team are the StreetFighters. I havn't played since the patch, where the fouling is for free (since I really don't like that), but I am so curious about your playstyle, I would!

And that's what "balance" is about. I dont get why we are talking about treeman. All the skills they have are working in the DB setting. It comes down to personal reference, if a coach wants to use them or not (I do for example).

@Archon : It's just because you can have : Death Roller + Yethi + 2 Treemens (halfings). And other roster can only have 2 big guys. It brokes the balance.

The point is not to add necessary lonely to them, but to have the 2 big guys limitation rule, because we have 3 rosters in 1 in DB.

But it's out of topic

The problem is, that this game is already wrecked. And argument that 2 out of 3 available colleges has an access to DR, so it's ok, is laughable.

Good point, and it will be 2 out of 10 Nasty.

I don't play Elves, but if I did, I'd use the Trees as defense. All you need to do is move them two spaces forward, which is a risk of 1 Take Root each. Then leave them.

and the DR has no penalty... it needs one thats the point
i stopped reading anything you have to say after this line.
you should not defend the DR if you are as you are obviously bias
I play all 3 teams... if you did you may get a truer perspective of the problems

yes i port my DR in as it can stop half a team... also if i get my opponent between my DR and the rest my team i can force him to me before he can group up his team

I don't play Elves, but if I did, I'd use the Trees as defense. All you need to do is move them two spaces forward, which is a risk of 1 Take Root each. Then leave them.

and the DR has no penalty... it needs one thats the point
I play all 3 teams... if you did you may get a truer perspective of the problems

If you want to make the point that Rainbow is unbalanced, I'd agree with you and support your point. There's only two Rainbow teams in the top twenty currently. But that's something that will be balanced out with the addition of more colleges. WE/halflings are disadvantaged against dwarves.

You probably never played against a good coach with DR. First - DR has a break tackle, so it's very hard to mark. Second - skilled DR owner never allow to get this machine out-of-position or to be lured in meaningless blocks with a lineman.
Of course - you can always be lucky. But I wouldn't agree, that luck is proper counter strategy.
I repeat - the only effective counter strategy for DR, is to have one in our team. It makes DR an obligatory player. And it makes this game dull and boring.

I've played Dr. Strangeglove (currently ranked ninth) three times and he had a deathroller in all three games. He's an exceptional coach. I beat him twice without a deathroller. He beat me once when we both had deathrollers. Case in point -- we're both very good coaches on the same level of skill. Nevertheless, I could overcome his deathroller twice. So it isn't a gamebreaker.

The problem is, that this game is already wrecked. And argument that 2 out of 3 available colleges has an access to DR, so it's ok, is laughable.

As I mentioned earlier in this post, this is a separate issue, independent of the DR. The problem is that Rainbow is at a disadvantage against Dwarf teams. I anticipate that this will start to work itself out with the addition of new colleges.

To illustrate this point, think about what gives WE the advantage in normal BB. In a word, mobility. The pitch is wide open, and it's not very hard to get your catchers/war dancers behind the defense. After that, it's just a matter of completing the pass. For obvious reasons, the last thing a WE coach wants to do is engage in a blocking war.

In dugeonbowl, however, their mobility is severely limited. Most maps require the elves to pass through a choke point to score. Just about every map forces them to go toe-to-toe with dwarves.

Also keep in mind that every dwarf team has supplementary races that increase their mobility. With 4 human blitzers, 2 Norse Werewolves and/or halflings, suddenly the dwarf team isn't so static.

Another problem is that other than the trees and two human players, the Rainbow team has universally bad AV and NO access to strength skills.

Now you've got an extremely squishy team locked in a confined space with nearly-indestructible, hard-hitting opponents.

All you've got to do against an elf team is make sure nobody gets behind you, and you've won. You don't need a deathroller to pull that off. So, once again, it isn't the deathroller that puts the Rainbow team at the disadvantage. They're innately inferior in this particular ruleset.

Nasty - I am eager to see how you play! Maybe you are online later (I am GMT+2 and will be at home anytime you can play after about 15:00) and I would really like to see you playing against my DR-Team. I am just curious, how you do on the pitch, since you are so confident about beating any team with a DR.

My team are the StreetFighters. I havn't played since the patch, where the fouling is for free (since I really don't like that), but I am so curious about your playstyle, I would!

I'd love to play you, man. Anytime. I don't know if I'll be online tonight, but I will be soon. My ingame coach name is Nasty as well. My team is "The Iron Flag Brothers." TV at ~1500. I do have a DR at this point with my team. I don't want to give you the wrong impression.

But yeah. Keep an eye out for me. Love to see you on the pitch.

BTW, I'm on GMT -6, if that helps.

well i just played you nasty, and must say was disappointed with your style of play
you don't look for the ball
your team is all bash (with DR) and next to no players with agi of 3
you sit back and choke you goal
your hope is to bash the other to death
you dont adapt to the situation

all said though thanks for the win

once i had more players on the field (turn 7) i sat back as well, knowing the turn 24 warp out was in my favor
in 40ish games now thats only the second 24 turn game have played both played tonight

had you come after me sooner i would have scored with the agi 5 leap elf star player but would i have been able we will never know
hope you don't play all your games that way.... then again the double MVP is nice
and yep the DR is still OP

oh and the ball falling into lava or hands (cant remember what it was) and not coming back on turn 27 was odd and sucks

Haha. You must be a truly exceptional coach, Jester. Beyond exceptional.

Haha. You must be a truly exceptional coach, Jester. Beyond exceptional.

nar not hard to count to 12 and see the other guy has 10

well i just played you nasty, and must say was disappointed with your style of play
you don't look for the ball
your team is all bash (with DR) and next to no players with agi of 3
you sit back and choke you goal
your hope is to bash the other to death
you dont adapt to the situation

all said though thanks for the win

once i had more players on the field (turn 7) i sat back as well, knowing the turn 24 warp out was in my favor
in 40ish games now thats only the second 24 turn game have played both played tonight

had you come after me sooner i would have scored with the agi 5 leap elf star player but would i have been able we will never know
hope you don't play all your games that way.... then again the double MVP is nice
and yep the DR is still OP

oh and the ball falling into lava or hands (cant remember what it was) and not coming back on turn 27 was odd and sucks

You won. By forfeit. Because the ball fell in a pit trap and couldn't be recovered. I had no idea that could happen, but it did. It won't happen again.

But seeing how you like to air your trash-talk in public, let's set the record straight. You played with a deathroller AND two treemen. Kind of negates every point you've made thusfar.

I don't want to hear another word about how deathrollers are OP from you.

i won coz i used said DR to pick off your players and gang foul you lone guys to give me the numbers advantage

the ball fell in remember coz by the time you picked it up that players got warped out (was to far from my zone any way) my tree took root 2 times and would never make it to your zone (coz they have a penalty the DR has NONE)

had i played one of my rainbow teams vs you i dont think i would have won or had a chance to and thats my point
you just hide with your team behind your DR and ogre
i had 300 TV less than you and you still sit at bottle necks

is it the only play style you have? and if so you make my point that the maps and DR make for that style of play
and yes the DR is OP with no sort of bone head

remember what i said... i play EVERY team... can you say the same (oh and my rainbow teams were spinning as well at the time as was my dwarf team you just got that match up)

I would have liked a straight up game maybe you could have made me see the DR is ok but you just strengthened my resolve
it is way to OP as unlike trees and other big guys it is NEVER caught out of position

I also humbly and deeply apologize... it is not my intent to trash talk, but i wanted to make a point about the DR and the type of players that defend it... I am very sorry if i have upset you

I would bet most who do defend it play only that team and use same tactics and as such are bias to the argument

yes i have a team (well 2 i think) with DR but i also play the others

if i only played rainbow i too would be bias and one eyed to have DR removed
but i don't

all i ask is please try the other teams (rainbow) and then tell us what you think