Death Roller

In Ratcityrumble, they use this rules :

Any time that a player with a secret weapon rolls a double for armor or injury, they are ejected after the rolls are concluded (just like Fouling). This causes a Turnover. Bribes will stop the ejection as normal as will Sneaky Git if armor is not broken.

That seems like an excellent rule change! I suggest Cyanide starts to use it. It would balance Death Roller and the other upcoming secret weapons nicely.

...loner on his deathroller kicked in, stopping him from rerolling a double skull block...

I have seen Halfling outbashing (and fouling)Orcs, Lizards and Khemri due to good dice rolls. Such things happen, but they dont mean, that there is (or should be) a balanced "bash-" capability of the flings and the other teams.

That seems like an excellent rule change!

We will see - they for sure have already something to come up with. Beside that, I am not sure, if i would like that rule, because (I need to do the math), but it seems a bit like the best way to remove roller with that rule would just be to make a 3D-against block with a rookie halfling on him and hope the SW to kick in. With MightyBlow, Stunty, there should be AV+Injury normaly and you risk 20TV against the roller. Without calculating the odds I would say that you have the break-even point at 2 flings...

...loner on his deathroller kicked in, stopping him from rerolling a double skull block...

I have seen Halfling outbashing (and fouling)Orcs, Lizards and Khemri due to good dice rolls. Such things happen, but they dont mean, that there is (or should be) a balanced "bash-" capability of the flings and the other teams.

I play a lot with Ogre teams - two-die up hill blocks with an attacker who has block against a defender who doesn't work very well, as I've found out to my cost many times playing against dwarves

In Ratcityrumble, they use this rules :

Any time that a player with a secret weapon rolls a double for armor or injury, they are ejected after the rolls are concluded (just like Fouling). This causes a Turnover. Bribes will stop the ejection as normal as will Sneaky Git if armor is not broken.

That seems like an excellent rule change! I suggest Cyanide starts to use it. It would balance Death Roller and the other upcoming secret weapons nicely.

I really don't like that rule - all that would happen is that you'd get deathrollers tooled up with guard, grab, and similar skills sat in the middle of corridors acting as roadblocks. If it is to be nerfed then it should just be a rule similar to bonehead - a 1/6 chance of not doing anything that turn (and maybe losing it's tackle zone too, which would help make it a less reliable defensive piece).

One of the changes made between LRP5 and LRP6 was to give dwarf deathrollers the loner negi-trait. This change was made for good reasons, and, along with the lack of general skill access which is characteristic of all big guys, makes the death roller pretty unreliable.

thats hardly a negatrait, all big guys have that in addition to bone head, wild animal etc. this is what a deathroller needs, bonehead equivalent. or if you knock it down its out so only have to deal with it once, after all how does a machine get up?

I've had loner screw up my plans in *many* games - I fear it a lot more than bonehead and wild animal (as these don't cause turnovers). It's the lack of loner which makes Ogre teams playable - if the negitraits were switched round and ogres had loner rather than bonehead they would be a much worse team (well, more so than they are already).

Beside that, I am not sure, if i would like that rule, because (I need to do the math), but it seems a bit like the best way to remove roller with that rule would just be to make a 3D-against block with a rookie halfling on him and hope the SW to kick in.

I really don't like that rule - all that would happen is that you'd get deathrollers tooled up with guard, grab, and similar skills sat in the middle of corridors acting as roadblocks.

You're saying the same rule would 1) make opponents hit Death Rollers all the time with their weakest players and 2) make Death Rollers just sit there passively? (By the way, how exactly does Grab benefit a Death Roller that never blocks?)

So the offensive use of the machine would be toned down but the opponent would be voluntarily feeding it players to be injured (in a game where the sheer number of players on the pitch is often decisive)? That sounds first a bit contradictory and second not all bad when we mean to bring the terminator down a notch or two.

I get what you guys are saying, though, and to me the simple 1 in 6 chance of losing a turn and maybe his tackle zones is starting to sound more attractive. It would be a lot clearer, to be sure.

One of the changes made between LRP5 and LRP6 was to give dwarf deathrollers the loner negi-trait. This change was made for good reasons, and, along with the lack of general skill access which is characteristic of all big guys, makes the death roller pretty unreliable.

thats hardly a negatrait, all big guys have that in addition to bone head, wild animal etc. this is what a deathroller needs, bonehead equivalent. or if you knock it down its out so only have to deal with it once, after all how does a machine get up?

I've had loner screw up my plans in *many* games - I fear it a lot more than bonehead and wild animal (as these don't cause turnovers). It's the lack of loner which makes Ogre teams playable - if the negitraits were switched round and ogres had loner rather than bonehead they would be a much worse team (well, more so than they are already).

apart from ogre teams any ogre has loner and bonehead so as I said it has 2 negatraits. the deathroller only has loner, it needs something to make it like the other big guys as its balanced for BB but not DB. its too cheap for what it is at the moment or needs bonehead.

ona a side note, how does something with no hands get grab

You're saying the same rule would 1) make opponents hit Death Rollers all the time with their weakest players and 2) make Death Rollers just sit there passively? (By the way, how exactly does Grab benefit a Death Roller that never blocks?)

I'd block with the deathroller, but would generally take push results rather than knockdown results - with 3 die you've a 19/27 chance of getting at least one push result (which is, coincidentally, why I will risk occasionally moving a goblin fanatic into a team mate, as there's only a small chance of having to injure them) - the odds are improved if you're blitzing (because of juggernaut). I'd focus on using the deathroller to push opposing players into positions for my other players to hit them, or to push them into pit traps. A lot of blocking is about positional play anyway, rather than injuring the opposition (that's just a bonus), so I'd save my attempts of injuring players for my opponents star players, rather than risking the deathroller on a with a lineman.

I've had loner screw up my plans in *many* games - I fear it a lot more than bonehead and wild animal (as these don't cause turnovers). It's the lack of loner which makes Ogre teams playable - if the negitraits were switched round and ogres had loner rather than bonehead they would be a much worse team (well, more so than they are already).

apart from ogre teams any ogre has loner and bonehead so as I said it has 2 negatraits. the deathroller only has loner, it needs something to make it like the other big guys as its balanced for BB but not DB. its too cheap for what it is at the moment or needs bonehead.
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Yes - but as I said, I think loner is a worse negitrait than bonehead. Not that I don't think the deathroller doesn't need a bit of a tweak for the sake of balance - it's just *way* down my personal list of priorities for the devs (they should wait at least until all the rest of the teams are out, so we can see it in the context of the full game).

ona a side note, how does something with no hands get grab

LOL - I have *absolutely* no idea!