Deathroller & Big Guys

We have gone way off the original topic of deathrollers and moved on to definitions of Big Guys. Tricky you are way too hung up on the names of players, these have changed at various times over the history on the game.

It might be an idea to look back at the 2nd edition positional types since in those days pretty much every player fell into 1 of the 5 and were much closer to American football. We didn’t have such as witch elves or trollslayers and when the game became 3rd edition GW moved it much closer to fantasy battle in player design and team make up.

So cathers would be wide receiver types, fast and fragile. Thrower would be the quarterbacks, blockers are the hug front line guys, whilst blitzers are a combination of the guys who do the running plays and who try to sack the opposing quarterback on defence, linemen are generalists. Sorry I don’t know all the proper names for the football players but I’m sure American members can correct me.

Back in 2nd edition Ogres had both blitzers and blockers whilst teams like Orcs and humans had all 5 positions. I’d see a troll as a blocker since he is slow, well armoured, unagile and hits hard, whilst a Minotaur would be more of a big guy blitzer since he suits aggressive playstyle. This does make the old position limitations harder when you have players such as witch elves that don’t fit into certain categories and now that big guys are rostered.

We should really split the discussion into 2.
The 1st being the issues with the deathroller covering things like if it is too good (many think it is), how it should be changed, what changes GW would allow and how to change it without impacting other secret weapons or big guys.
The 2nd would cover things like, if allowing more than 2 big guys in a team will unbalance teams, what is a big guy, if we should just have generic ogres and treemen or specific ones without loner or with access to mutations for chaos ogres. It may also be useful to discuss the differences between races and postions but that doesn’t seem to bother many.

Just U-N-B-E-L-I-E-V-A-B-E-L...........

Nearly everyone is still crying cause of the DR!!!

Guys, if you can't handle a DR, maybe this is not your game!!!

There are so many other games, where you can run through dungeons and open chests!!! GO PLAY THOSE OTHER GAMES!!!

Suggestions for Cyanide:
Just make the DR (and ofc the other players with SW) cost more. This shouldn't be a problem I think, cause Jervis Johnson (you know the guy who enhanced the game from the 2nd Editon on) told us how the calculation of players was made ( http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/bloodbowl/playercost.html ). This could be used as an argumentation if GW is against changing players skills.

OK, OK with this calculation the DR would cost 125K , BUT it is a way to change something in the limitation set by the developer of the game. I don't mind if the DR (like douglow mentioned somewhere) would cost 100K more (but for the Gobo SW it is maybe too much, there i suggest something about 50K).

If the DR is taken out of the game, others will cry and say that the Treeman is overpowered. Cause if you position a Treeman in the right place it is realy hard to pass him cause of Stand Firm, the DR is the only guy with enough ST and Juggernaut to solve this problem.

BTW, the rules say "Players in precarious positions must roll D6 before they make a block, or have a block thrown at them". This should be implemented as soon as possible, this would make bashy teams more vulnerable. So a forexample a Gobo could block/blitz forexample a DR in a precarious position and with a little luck you would get rid of the DR sooner as you think.

So pleeeeaaaaaaase Cyanide guys think about my suggestions and act, maybe this girly discussion takes an end.

If others from the community have the same oppinion or think this a fair solution, please give me a +1. Maybe we get with enough +1s one step further

Guys, if you can't handle a DR, maybe this is not your game!!!

Sold!

But seriously, I've asked you half a dozen times now: why is the Death Roller an important part of DungeonBowl?

This is the very first version of the game that has featured it. I personally don't find it that difficult to defeat. I just find that, at least on most maps, it makes for a fairly boring game.

In fact, I think that the proliferation of big guys in general has hurt the game. However, as not a single person has agreed with me on that point, I must agree that it is probably not my game.

Just make the DR (and ofc the other players with SW) cost more.

Not possible to change the cost.

Guys, if you can't handle a DR, maybe this is not your game!!!

Sold!

But seriously, I've asked you half a dozen times now: why is the Death Roller an important part of DungeonBowl?

This is the very first version of the game that has featured it. I personally don't find it that difficult to defeat. I just find that, at least on most maps, it makes for a fairly boring game.

In fact, I think that the proliferation of big guys in general has hurt the game. However, as not a single person has agreed with me on that point, I must agree that it is probably not my game.

I think the main issue is the cramped maps - which allow big guys too much sway over the game. Play a few games on some of the more open community maps and I'm sure you'll find that big guys end up hampering their own coach more than the opposition.

If others from the community have the same oppinion or think this a fair solution, please give me a +1. Maybe we get with enough +1s one step further

+1

But, as A-R-C-H-O-N has pointed out, we're unlikely to ever see the costs of players adjusted to balance the game more.

Hi Archon,

yes I read that.
Thats the reason why I mentioned Jarvis Johnson, it could be a good argumentation base to convince GW, that the change of cost is a possible thing and goes hand in hand with the basic idea of BB. It was a suggestion to help Cyanide (even I don't like them) with argumentations while discussing with GW. Have the feeling Cyanide has problems to make their point of view clear while talking with GW. Could be a linguistic barrier

A +1 from you douglowe, can't believe that

But THX and cheers

i have an idea. why not keep the death roiller but give it a chance to blow up, in a place with low ceilings and confined they will overheat them steam engine would go boom. i like death rollers and would like to keep them in, but in way that is fair

I like your style! An exploding death roller would certainly add some excitement to the sometimes plodding dwarf games.