Cyanide, so sell me on this then...

mmmm....I wonder if something like that has happened in the past, and whether it made too much difference

Well, there's two questions there, and the answers are "yes" and "no", and I'll leave it to you to work out in the order they go.

My god, this forum is entirely populated with a bunch of whiney bitches! If this is an accurate cross-section of the BB community, I'd pack up shop and tell you all where to go, were this my development.

Any other game, you would have no idea of the rule set before launch, and after launch you wouldn't be able to tell between a bug and a feature.

The downfall of developing any BB-based game for the PC is that the rules have already been published, which hugely hampers the developers (race-specific wizards, anyone?). They're doing what they can. AFAIK, there's no set-in-stone LRB6 dungeonbowl rules, and I think Cyanide are doing the sensible thing and not telling exactly what ruleset is going to be in the game. Look at you already! As soon as they do, you'll be all over them like a pack of wolves.

They try to release team teasers, you shoot them down.
They include no single player so that all of their time is dedicated to multiplayer (where the community plays), you shoot them down.

For every piece of information they release, you bitch and moan no end. I am excited as the next person, but I haven't been here for a fortnight and upon my return I find this hate-filled cesspit.

You, Sirs, are a bunch of cocks, and I really do mean that for the vast majority of posters here. Mod me down if you like, but as a developer I'd be pretty pissed off at you all, and wonder why I bother. Custom dungeons is the only announcement that's got even a luke-warm response. And its brilliant! With the current attitude on these forums, I think they're doing the sensible thing and not playing all of their cards too early, else the game be written off before its even launched, as some threads are predicting.

Siam, Jolly, I thank you for the work you're doing here, and I understand how thankless it must appear right now. Believe me when I say that the naysayers are the vocal minority, that there are a lot of eager fans waiting silently in the wings.

Er Chel mate, we're not all dissing DB - in fact I'm ridiculously excited about it.

However, I do agree with many of your other, sitting-on-the-fence style comments

Er Chel mate, we're not all dissing DB - in fact I'm ridiculously excited about it.

However, I do agree with many of your other, sitting-on-the-fence style comments

What Ug, as unsarcastically as ever, said

My god, this forum is entirely populated with a bunch of whiney bitches!

Better than being populated by a bunch on Cyanide fanbois that will buy whatever piece of crap they try to pass as their next big thing. If they don't want critism, they shouldn't produce such bug-ridden software time and time again, and expect people to happily pay for it.

If this is an accurate cross-section of the BB community, I'd pack up shop and tell you all where to go, were this my development.

Apart from the fact they can't, due to being caught ripping of GW's IP.
Hopefully one day a competent developer though...

Any other game, you would have no idea of the rule set before launch, and after launch you wouldn't be able to tell between a bug and a feature.

Ah, so it's our fault that Cyanide have so screwed up the game - forgive me for thinking that they're were the ones that couldn't get the rules interactions correct, and left it very bugged.

The downfall of developing any BB-based game for the PC is that the rules have already been published, which hugely hampers the developers (race-specific wizards, anyone?).

That's not a downfall, it's a godsend. They had people correcting skill interactions before the game was ever sold. They had (have) pretty much the whole group of what is a niche game as a captive audience - IF they'd managed to get it right.

They didn't.

They're doing what they can.

Ha! Tell that to the bugs on the buglist that have been there since the closed beta test for BB1.

People would have forgiven the bugs if they'd seen they were getting fixed, but they haven't. The latest patch needed patching within days because it caused more problems than it solved. The bug list on their own forum is huge, and seem to get bigger rather than smaller.

AFAIK, there's no set-in-stone LRB6 dungeonbowl rules, and I think Cyanide are doing the sensible thing and not telling exactly what ruleset is going to be in the game.

You are right they're no LRB6 ruleset. You are wrong saying that Cyanide are doing the sensible thing. Seeing the mess that they've made of BB (the bugs, all the effort on real-time, which hardly anyone uses, the Xbox/DS/PSP versions) no-one trusts them to make a ruleset themselves - see the controversy/worry of Khorne being added to BB:Chaos instead of a playtested roster.

As soon as they do, you'll be all over them like a pack of wolves.

What, you think they can make a better ruleset than people that actually play the game? If they posted the rules, the community could spot any major errors in it before it's programmed in (or at least give thm time to change it).

They try to release team teasers, you shoot them down.

Because they look shite, and something modders have been doing since BB1?

They include no single player so that all of their time is dedicated to multiplayer (where the community plays), you shoot them down.

Because MP isn't going to be the big thing for DB like it is for BB - DB is a niche sub-set of a niche game.

My god, this forum is entirely populated with a bunch of whiney bitches! If this is an accurate cross-section of the BB community, I'd pack up shop and tell you all where to go, were this my development.

Are you sure? Wouldn't you rely on the fact that many people would happily buy any crock of ... that has a blood bowl label on it?

If you cannot handle a bit of whining the online blood bowl probably isn't for you anyway.

Any other game, you would have no idea of the rule set before launch, and after launch you wouldn't be able to tell between a bug and a feature.

The downfall of developing any BB-based game for the PC is that the rules have already been published, which hugely hampers the developers (race-specific wizards, anyone?). They're doing what they can. AFAIK, there's no set-in-stone LRB6 dungeonbowl rules, and I think Cyanide are doing the sensible thing and not telling exactly what ruleset is going to be in the game. Look at you already! As soon as they do, you'll be all over them like a pack of wolves.

Someone once said to me. "I don't know how you can do your job. If you foul up people can actually prove it."

That's the job. Get it right or answer for it.

They try to release team teasers, you shoot them down.
They include no single player so that all of their time is dedicated to multiplayer (where the community plays), you shoot them down.

For every piece of information they release, you bitch and moan no end. I am excited as the next person, but I haven't been here for a fortnight and upon my return I find this hate-filled cesspit.

It's not "hate filled". It's just that after considering their track record some people are a little sceptical.

You, Sirs, are a bunch of cocks, and I really do mean that for the vast majority of posters here. Mod me down if you like, but as a developer I'd be pretty pissed off at you all, and wonder why I bother. Custom dungeons is the only announcement that's got even a luke-warm response. And its brilliant! With the current attitude on these forums, I think they're doing the sensible thing and not playing all of their cards too early, else the game be written off before its even launched, as some threads are predicting.

If you are a developer you would probably be even more pissed off with not having the resources to do the job properly and being forced to release code that you know is still full of bugs.

Unless you are a jaded quick buck merchant that is.

Siam, Jolly, I thank you for the work you're doing here, and I understand how thankless it must appear right now. Believe me when I say that the naysayers are the vocal minority, that there are a lot of eager fans waiting silently in the wings.

I think that Siam knows the community a lot better than you do Chel.

They've done the maths and worked out that it is more cost effective to push out a new product than fix problems with the old one.

They have figured that they will make more from newcomers and 'buy anything blood bowl related' types than they will lose from people put off by previous debacles.

That's business.

I've paid my money to Cyanide but I still go with the home made 2D java sprites over Siam's nice artwork simply because I am more confident that the underlying game will work as I expect it to.

Totally agree Chel. I hope they don't "sell" Darkson on "this". Wouldn't want to spend an hour or more in his company.

Fumbbl and Cyanide both have their strengths and weaknesses. But why people who have written Cyanide off already waste their time pissing in the wind here and on the Focus boards I have no idea. Everyone's position is entrenched. Nay sayers... why not find a game you like and go and be a fanbois on that forum instead?

Personally, I am stunned that Cyanide aren't doing simple damage control with there anouncements. The majority of online BB players are aware of many of the bugs still plaguing BBLE. Cyanide needs to state clearly that they're aware of their mistakes in the past and are seeking to rectify it by doing A, B and C. It may not be enough to convince the more sceptical but it's precisely what Darkson asked for the original post, and it should be a high priority for them if they're seeking to garner sales from established customers.

At present, they've anounced:
Dungeons can be created (excellent addition particularly as it was not required for a functioning game)
Two Team rosters (without complete details as to position limitations)

The first roster showed us what exactly? Players from different BB races on the same team (so we know that teams will be mixed races). The graphics that appear to not be updated from BBLE. It's not earth shattering news.
The second roster was another college from the outdated Dungeonbowl rules with a slight change to the race quotas. All that did for me was to show they are allowed to make some changes to those rules.

What's needed to excite people is something new (with enough detail to satisfy that it isn't idiotic). These could be graphics, ruleset, features or even anouncements that they've corrected problems from BBLE. That's what will generate positive buzz.

I'm really hoping they get Dungeonbowl right. I'm really looking forward to it. But nothing they've said beyond the initial anouncement has filled me with either excitement or confidence.

I don't want to add to the negativity, I was initally trying to be positive about this game because it sounded like a lot of fun, but I definitely agree with Darkson and Koadah here.

Cyanide have blamed a lot of the poor communications from BB on Focus, and could be using this game as a chance to prove that right, but, once again, they are failing at the very basics.

There are several threads on here asking for answers to some basic questions, but at best we get tiny snippets of non-information - not even something like "we can't answer that at present" which would at least imply they are taking the time to read the forum.

What's needed to excite people is something new (with enough detail to satisfy that it isn't idiotic). These could be graphics, ruleset, features or even anouncements that they've corrected problems from BBLE. That's what will generate positive buzz.

I'm really hoping they get Dungeonbowl right. I'm really looking forward to it. But nothing they've said beyond the initial anouncement has filled me with either excitement or confidence.

I agree wholeheartedly with this... Nothing that has been posted up so far has been ground-breaking. We've had two teams that even I could probably put together using the existing BB game (what is it - a quick change to a couple of config files and hey presto, you can hire different races on the same team?), and a couple of generic dungeon images.

Unless I'm mistaken, we've not even been shown any pictures of an actual game in progress... which for a game due out in the next two months is a little strange. Well, it would be if I had any hopes Cyanide could actually keep to the schedule they've set themselves...

Fumbbl and Cyanide both have their strengths and weaknesses. But why people who have written Cyanide off already waste their time pissing in the wind here and on the Focus boards I have no idea. Everyone's position is entrenched. Nay sayers... why not find a game you like and go and be a fanbois on that forum instead?

I love Bloodbowl, and here's the deal: I will almost certainly, at some point, buy Dungeonbowl (and BB: Chaos edition for that matter). What I want, and I think others on here want too, is some indication that it will be worth buying at or soon after release, rather than waiting until a few months after release when it hits a decent sale price... and when they may have managed to fix all the bugs that will inevitably crop up.

I really think that Cyanide and GW missed a trick with Dungeonbowl.

Had they released the updated ruleset at the same time as the game was announced then they could have generated more interest as people started using the rules in tabletop.

Even better if they had those as a Beta set so experienced coaches could have tried them out to discover any glaring flaws. 2 members of the BBRC often post on the Cyanide Bloodbowl forum so they might have been willing to give feedback too.

We still don’t know if the 10 teams will follow the old make up and thus miss out on a lot of the newer races (khemri, necromantics, amazons, lizardmen, nurgle etc). Nor do we know if the positional limits are per team or per race.

The original BB game from Cyanide was not great, so I didn’t get it. Legendary Edition was better and I was able to get it cheap, on reflection it was probably worth the money. It was just a shame they wasted so much effort on junk like the real time mode and stuff from Blitz mode.

I will adopt a wait and see attitude towards both Chaos Edition and Dungeonbowl to find out how well those are done and see the price asked for. I for 1 am glad they didn’t waste time on single player as the AI is awful and would be even worse at Dungeonbowl. The customisable dungeons are a good thing as well since that should add variety.

The trouble with Dungeonbowl is that the novelty can wear off pretty quickly so it may have a shorter shelf life than normal BB.