Cyanide, so sell me on this then...

Fumbbl and Cyanide both have their strengths and weaknesses. But why people who have written Cyanide off already waste their time pissing in the wind here and on the Focus boards I have no idea. Everyone's position is entrenched. Nay sayers... why not find a game you like and go and be a fanbois on that forum instead?

I love Bloodbowl, and here's the deal: I will almost certainly, at some point, buy Dungeonbowl (and BB: Chaos edition for that matter). What I want, and I think others on here want too, is some indication that it will be worth buying at or soon after release, rather than waiting until a few months after release when it hits a decent sale price... and when they may have managed to fix all the bugs that will inevitably crop up.

Yeah but if you'e going to buy it you must be a Fanbois and not a Naysayer! Maybe we need a new category... Fencesitter. Darkson's not gonna buy it 'cos he's well hard.

Had they released the updated ruleset at the same time as the game was announced then they could have generated more interest as people started using the rules in tabletop.

That's assuming that GW plans to release the new rules as the official updated TT Dungeon Bowl rules.

[Jolly Roger]

The rules of the video game will be almost the same as the TT game. Theses rules will be available for consultation ingame, as well as the small changes that we made.
Actually we don't know if Games Workshop plans to update the TT game or not.

[Jolly Roger]

I think that Siam knows the community a lot better than you do Chel.

They've done the maths and worked out that it is more cost effective to push out a new product than fix problems with the old one.

They have figured that they will make more from newcomers and 'buy anything blood bowl related' types than they will lose from people put off by previous debacles.

That's business.

I've paid my money to Cyanide but I still go with the home made 2D java sprites over Siam's nice artwork simply because I am more confident that the underlying game will work as I expect it to.

On that point, Dungeonbowl and Blood Bowl are two separated projects. The budget for Blood Bowl is managed by Focus, whereas we did Dungeonbowl with our own budget. So we didn't choose between two projects, we just keep working on Blood Bowl with Focus, while trying to start our own project with Dungeonbowl.

I think what is bothering people is that line, 'the same as TT game.' Because there is no TT version with the new teams. A lot of the confusion or debate would end if lists were released which actually defined the player positions availible for the College teams. 0-16 Undead, 0-6 Dark Elves, 0-2 Trolls doesn't help people understand what exactly they can field.

I am content to wait it out, but a lot of posts have been consciously avoided by the development staff. Obviously Cyanide has working team rosters, but they have decided against posting specifics. It is easier to deal with the lack of information than specific comments as to the decision to field a specific race or position.

I think what is bothering people is that line, 'the same as TT game.' Because there is no TT version with the new teams. A lot of the confusion or debate would end if lists were released which actually defined the player positions availible for the College teams. 0-16 Undead, 0-6 Dark Elves, 0-2 Trolls doesn't help people understand what exactly they can field.

I am content to wait it out, but a lot of posts have been consciously avoided by the development staff. Obviously Cyanide has working team rosters, but they have decided against posting specifics. It is easier to deal with the lack of information than specific comments as to the decision to field a specific race or position.

If you look up the first link on google after typing in Dungeon Bowl

i.e : http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... n_Bowl.pdf

On page 2 is a list of all of the teams regarding Dungeonbowl and the positional and race distributions. Hence why some posts have been consciously avoided id wager. Further more, id say the minor changes were to integrate the other teams, and obviously revealing them too early would be spoilerific and ruin the surprise. Either that or some more wackier integrations of the dungeons and obviously tweaking some of the more dated rules.

As far as I know, the 0-16 Dark Elves would be say, within the roster limits of the tabletop roster equvilant. So you could still only field say two Witch elves...four blitzers etc, but all within the TV limitation of 1k. AFAIK that is covered in the ruleset as well.

A lot of the confusion or debate would end if lists were released which actually defined the player positions availible for the College teams. 0-16 Undead, 0-6 Dark Elves, 0-2 Trolls doesn't help people understand what exactly they can field.

I am content to wait it out, but a lot of posts have been consciously avoided by the development staff. Obviously Cyanide has working team rosters, but they have decided against posting specifics. It is easier to deal with the lack of information than specific comments as to the decision to field a specific race or position.

If you look up the first link on google after typing in Dungeon Bowl

i.e : http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... n_Bowl.pdf

On page 2 is a list of all of the teams regarding Dungeonbowl and the positional and race distributions. Hence why some posts have been consciously avoided id wager. Further more, id say the minor changes were to integrate the other teams, and obviously revealing them too early would be spoilerific and ruin the surprise. Either that or some more wackier integrations of the dungeons and obviously tweaking some of the more dated rules.

As far as I know, the 0-16 Dark Elves would be say, within the roster limits of the tabletop roster equvilant. So you could still only field say two Witch elves...four blitzers etc, but all within the TV limitation of 1k. AFAIK that is covered in the ruleset as well.

Since the team I quoted was obviously from the document you linked, thanks for the trolling. You basically linked me to a document that doesn't contain answers to the questions I have. Cyanide hasn't provided any answers to questions by numerous posters- I was just trying to make the point that if they answered some of the questions things would go smoother. Maybe it is a waste of time to ask anything on here without 'ruining the surprise' of what a great game this will be.

That's not really trolling

I would instead suggest that he didn't quite understand which bit you had an issue with, though the 2nd paragraph of his post would answer your question, if it was correct.

Hi slothMD,
We answered your questions in other threads. We are reading this forum everyday and we really try to be closed to the community now that we are self-published (on this game at least).
So if you want to talk about Blood Bowl communication or simply trolling, this is not the good place here.

Was going through a bunch of posts trying to find some useful information, when I stumbled across this.
I know its a language issue, and I know its childish of me, but I love the fact Cyanide are aiming to be closed to the community

I think that Siam knows the community a lot better than you do Chel.

They've done the maths and worked out that it is more cost effective to push out a new product than fix problems with the old one.

They have figured that they will make more from newcomers and 'buy anything blood bowl related' types than they will lose from people put off by previous debacles.

That's business.

I've paid my money to Cyanide but I still go with the home made 2D java sprites over Siam's nice artwork simply because I am more confident that the underlying game will work as I expect it to.

On that point, Dungeonbowl and Blood Bowl are two separated projects. The budget for Blood Bowl is managed by Focus, whereas we did Dungeonbowl with our own budget. So we didn't choose between two projects, we just keep working on Blood Bowl with Focus, while trying to start our own project with Dungeonbowl.

Thanks for the answer JR. Now we're getting to it.

So, are you implying that Blood Bowl issues are partly/largely Focus's fault due to restricting the budget and that Dungeon Bowl could be better as you control this yourself?

Though when things go wrong as the developer it is your reputation that takes the bashing rather than Focus.

Does the Blood Bowl deal with Focus expire? Would you then be able to produce further 'proper' Blood Bowl editions on your own?

Obviously the more polished the first release the more 'sceptics' will buy early at full price instead of waiting for the Steam/Play sale.