Jade and Grey Colleges delayed

the 1st version of BB cost me 25 pounds. legendary edition cost me 15 (it was discounted within 1 week of release)

That's comparing discounted prices with new release prices. Doesn't seem entirely fair. We can always wait for discounts on the latest stuff, also.

the fact is they dont have to do any work on the teams.

I don't view it that way. Which is better, selling the game with all teams for 35-40 euros or selling a starter pack for 15 and then letting you buy the teams you like for a few euros more? If you end up buying them all, my guess is you like the game and find enough pleasure in it to have it be worth it.

With the DLC model you can try the game out pretty cheaply and if it's not your bag, no harm no foul. Dungeonbowl is not to everyone's taste.

Also, one way to think of the pricing is that actually it could be the other way around. The cost of developing the full new game is split between the starter pack and the DLCs. We get the playable game at below cost, but they hope to profit eventually with the later releases. No outsider can know for sure how it is. I haven't heard of any dream cars in Cyanide parking lots, though. I'm just happy there's someone making a game like Dungeonbowl for us to play and enjoy instead of an FPS with grim soldiers in it.

I'm not bringing this up to claim you are wrong or shouldn't feel the way you feel. I understand what you're saying and on another day I could easily feel the same. It takes some getting used to to the way games are brought to market today. I suspect for Cyanide and us players both.

But ok. Its not my circus. Everyone happy about prices and product quality - I wish you good play with only 20 or less people online. Because I doubt you get more.

Aww, don't go away mad. We're just talking, is all. There's plenty of room for different opinions on the forum and on the pitch. There's no right or wrong here. Variety is the spice of life and if you look at the team rosters at the top of the rankings, there's at least fifteen ways to skin the cat. All can succeed with their own way of looking at things and building their teams. That's what makes this so interesting. Also, if you'll join in, we'll have 21!

When you bought a game with only three teams, you must have known that the low price point was based upon paying extra for "future" content.

Actually, I didn't buy the game, when I saw the DLC model mentioned. I've kept an eye out in case they decided to change their minds, or at least have a vaguely sensible pricing structure. This is just the icing on the Not Being Bought cake...

I was actually replying to katadder, but your post got in between ours. I know that (s)he bought the game, because we met in the dungeon. (I won, but kat would be happy to tell you about how it was all luck. )

I know what you mean, though. I think a lot of people are probably holding off and waiting to see what the final pricing is like, and whether Cyanide can fix the game's obvious issues. Of course, I would anticipate a discounted "deluxe version" at the end of all this, so you may still get a chance to play in the end.

the 1st version of BB cost me 25 pounds. legendary edition cost me 15 (it was discounted within 1 week of release) and had 20 teams compared to the original 8, so at least they had done work on 12 more teams so that was fine. also these included AI so you could run your own leagues in the home. even if the AI wasnt very good at least you could play without relying on the tiny community that may actually be online for DB.
[...]
if i was to buy all the teams I would end up paying twice the cost of LE for half the teams and no AI. so $5 for 7 teams is not bad when no work at all is required to make them. they still make money off someone doing 30 seconds of their working day.

Well, putting up the price you got during a sale for comparison is like stating all cars are seriously overpriced because you bought a lottery ticket once for 10€ which won you a car. Okay, not exactly that extreme, but I hope you do get what I want to say here. LE is currently 40€ at steam (not counting summer sale), where you can also get DB for 15€. 7 missing teams equals 20-24 bucks (4 DLC) putting the game at 35-39€ at the end of the year, basically equaling out the price. Let's take a look at how they compare, 'kay?

In LE you get 20 races.
In DB you get 10 colleges includig about... 12(?) different races. I could argue now that the possible team-compilations here equal or even outpass the number of races in LE concerning gameplay possiblities, but I somehow doubt you will agree with that.

In LE you get a dozen-ish arenas.
In DB you theoretically get an infinite number of dungeons. Not to mention the fact that different dungeons, contrary to BB playfields, have a direct impact on the game. Since I haven't counted in the enviroment-kits in the costs above, the variations in gameplay are somewhat limited, though.

In LE, you have a singleplayer option.
In DB... yeah. This does suck donkeyhooves. For myself this actually proofed advantageous, since I started playing online (which I never did in BB) and really liked it. Small- and Trashtalking during the game really does improve the experience as a whole. Of course this is only true for myself and I'm again pretty shure you will see it differently.

So, in the end it boils down to wether you value dungeons and the ability to create your own ones over the ability to play against the AI. Your patience also plays a role, since you'd have to wait a couple of months ntil this comparison really fruits. If I were to compare DB how it is right now to LE, I'd just count it as a stand-alone DLC. And as such it holds up really well.

the fact is they dont have to do any work on the teams. they are direct copies of models and rules etc from BB. they are probably sitting in a big folder on a cyanide computer and are just cut/pasted accross. they are certainly not worth $5 for 2 teams when no new work at all is going into them.

Kinda have to agree with you here. Not because of the price (I guess Cyanide employees eat, too, and need some additional $$$ while working on bigger projects. which would also explain the departure from their former publisher for this project), but because of the delay until the content is released. There is one college that incorporates chaos dwarves, so it would kinda/sorta/maybe make some sense to delay that college until the BB-CDs are released. But for the others...

the fact is they dont have to do any work on the teams. they are direct copies of models and rules etc from BB. they are probably sitting in a big folder on a cyanide computer and are just cut/pasted accross. they are certainly not worth $5 for 2 teams when no new work at all is going into them.

I take it you don't work in programming? While it may appear that you can simply cut n' paste code across from one program to another i can assure you that it's never that simple (hence the first DLC pack is delayed because of issues with the goblin fanatic ruleset). In any case, why shouldn't cyanide make money from their intellectual property? If you think that the extra effort that went into making the cyanide games so atmospheric is not worth paying for then there's always the FUMBBL java client you could use instead. You could maybe help them write a dungeonbowl game - then you'll get an appreciation of how much work it really takes

well i brought the original BB on pre-order so that was new price. LE was one week in.
as for transplanting code. the players etc will be a file, they use the same models as the BB ones. this is just a case of moving the same code from one folder that deals with models in the BB game to another folder that deals with models in DB game. they are the same in both down to the moves etc.

the game should not end up costing the same as LE either. its using the work from LE. leaving out the AI. all it has new are maps and lets be honest maps are not that hard to make.

@Gaixo, which team were you? played a team yesterday where I couldnt make a single roll, even failed 2+ roll with reroll yet he had treemen wandering all over the place without being rooted.

@katadder It was last week. You had me pinned down, but my (WE) catcher ducked into a teleporter and came out right next to your endzone. You expressed some level of disgust in the chat area.


So...how much play do you think DB will get once Chaos Edition comes out? Better enjoy getting a few games in while you can.

well I have other games I can play, and lets be honest chaos edition is adding what 3 teams? i am not even buying that.
was never going to buy a cyanide game again but dungeonbowl was too much fun to pass up, just wish it had AI and more teams without paying extra to finish a game.

to be honest its not just cyanide these days. all games companies think they can give you half a game and then expect you to pay more for content that 5-6 years ago would have been included on day of purchase. unfortunately everybody then buys them and so the cycle continues.

as morgan says, how long before you buy a flashscreen, or the 1st level of a game before having to buy DLC to actually make it worthwhile?

and yeah i remember that one. thats 1 off luck and unfortunate but just the way the game goes I have had some games since where I couldnt roll a 2+. always 1s even with rerolls, been bad.

to be honest its not just cyanide these days. all games companies think they can give you half a game and then expect you to pay more for content that 5-6 years ago would have been included on day of purchase. unfortunately everybody then buys them and so the cycle continues.

This is surely because these days all games now get discounted to a fraction of the RRP within a month or two of release. Games companies are there to make money - so if they're not making the same money as they used to on selling the game as a one-off purchase then they'll try to make the money through drip feeding extra levels, teams, etc as DLC. For some games this kind of release schedule doesn't make sense, but for dungeonbowl I think it's pretty reasonable, as not everyone is going to want to play the same teams, nor will people who aren't very interested in dungeon building need to buy the environment packs, so you can still have a good game without having to buy every last DLC.

the games may get discounted but the games companies make the same amount of money no matter what the likes of amazon sell them for. games company sells to amazon or other retailer are a set price. that retailer then decides how much it wants to sell it on to the public for. its the same with all discount stores usually.

its just games companies like to milk the cash cow for longer now and sheeple like to make up stuff to explain why they bought half a game and why this is ok