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• View topic - Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

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Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

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Evilstein

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostTue Jul 31, 2012 6:37 pm

Speaking of which, is it a bug which forces you to have your mercenaries on the field at the start of the game?


Yes
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csbear

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostTue Jul 31, 2012 7:44 pm

Good post Evilstein...

I definitely like your idea of reducing luck and adding more tactics...I'm all for that. However, I like Precarious Position. It actually introduces more tactics in DB because now teams have to now consider pits as something they want to avoid getting near or using them as weapons. If anything it can also give the elves, halflings, gobs, etc. a fighting chance against those pesky big men.

It doesn't matter who you are, Beast of Nurgle, Treeman, or even a Deathroller, having your back pinned against a boiling lava pit will make you do stupid things out of terror. :lol:

(Just had the image in my head of a BoN turning around with a worried look on what's supposedly its face)
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Brihaspati

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostTue Jul 31, 2012 8:00 pm

Evilstein wrote:For (1) the problem is that in some/a lot of bad design maps it's like "roll a die at EVERY action you make" on a 1 your player die (almost)..


And I don't have much of a problem with that. Throw less blocks. To me, the issue appears to have something to do with a "culture shock" due to the inevitable comparisons with standard BB. In standard BB it's hardly ever a bad idea to throw a 2d-block, especially with a re-roll. The Precarious position rule in DB puts blocking on a par with ball-handling actions, which requires the hitherto-unseen skill of assessing when a block action is too risky.

(And yet blocking remains the safest thing to do because "prepo" fails on a 1, and because it does not cause turnovers. The latter being a misinterpretation of the --very poorly-worded-- rules in Jervis's document on the part of the devs, but one that actually improves things...)

Sure, the net effect is an increase in the game's randomness with respect to standard BB, but the need for skill is still there. Leverage precarious positions cleverly and you'll almost always get the weight of numbers on your side.

(Let us just say that I find the randomness of "prepo" in DB *far* less annoying than that of kickoff events in vanilla BB :lol:)

Remove "prepo" and DB becomes BB with less space to move around. Bad idea.

Concerning the maps with lots of precarious positions, I'd only regard "crossing" and maybe "outreach" as flawed. The problem with "crossing" is not the abundance of "prepos", it's the fact that it's too small and linear and the team that moves first has a huge advantage.
Last edited by Brihaspati on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brihaspati

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostTue Jul 31, 2012 9:23 pm

Another thing...

A-r-c-h-o-n wrote: ...i always wondered, why there is no new (general) skill introduced in DB, that prevents that roll. Seems like a good choice for some players to take.


That's a good idea, but the implementation you propose would be a bit too much, I'd say, and it would become far too prevalent. However, a skill granting an automatic re-roll on "prepo" tests, that would thus give a 1/36 chance of failure and allow to avoid eating normal RRs like candy, would be a welcome addition.
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A-r-c-h-o-n

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostTue Jul 31, 2012 10:16 pm

Brihaspati wrote:a skill granting an automatic re-roll on "prepo" tests


Well - that would be just a more specialiced (read: "worse") version of "Pro".
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Brihaspati

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostTue Jul 31, 2012 10:54 pm

One can say much the same thing about "sure feet", "pass" or "catch", no? "Sure Hands", apart from the protection against "strip ball" it affords? Or even "dodge", which does more than just granting a RR but also has a counter which our hypothetical skill wouldn't have...

More specialised than "pro", but far more reliable. Skills that grant specific RRs are prevalent in BB, and our hypothetical skill (which I'd recommend calling "original superfly precarious position gangsta") would thus fit in quite well.
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katadder

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostWed Aug 01, 2012 8:00 am

perhaps instead of introducing a new skill allow sure feet to also allow you to reroll your PP rolls.
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A-r-c-h-o-n

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostWed Aug 01, 2012 11:18 am

I like the suggestion from katadder.

Yes, all the skills you mentioned are basically RRs, but - and that's a big but - pass, sure hands and catch (normally) also fail at "better" rolls then 2+. With pass you can even decide, if you want to stay at "inaccurate". Sure hands counters Strip Ball (as mentioned). Dodge not only allows a RR (again normally on a 3+), but also helps when blocked. You see - the most other skills seem to be "better" then "just" a rr, you only need on a 1/6 in of all cases. Only sure feet is equally worse - and improving it like katadder suggests would make that skill a reasonable choice on a level up.
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Tristelune

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostWed Aug 01, 2012 11:35 am

In Lutececup rules of Dungeonbowl the "nerves of steel" skill make to ignore PP
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Brihaspati

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Re: Precarious Position ?? And some rules who can be changed

PostWed Aug 01, 2012 12:26 pm

katadder wrote:perhaps instead of introducing a new skill allow sure feet to also allow you to reroll your PP rolls.


This gets my vote. "Sure Feet" is an agility skill, which may be just what's needed to give Agility teams a boost.

This gets my vote, but on the strict condition that "Sure Feet" be then renamed "Superfly Surefire Daddy-O, Watch Him Doin' The Blockin', Doin' The Runnin'"
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