Death Roller

All of you only talk about the death roller, when the secret weapon skill (and playing only 1 drive) is the real problem. I can only imagine, what would happen if a college is introduced with goblins as second or third race. How would you handle a chainsaw or the bombardier?

So - what do you - experianced - coaches think of the different possibilities to handle secret weapon:

• Increase the cost of the player by x % (50?)
• let him roll anytime he makes an action (or only a blitz/block?) and sent him off on a 1.
• alter some other rules (only as idea for example): make the precarious position roll for them a 3+ (bullying of other players)
• another idea?

Edit: I would like to state, that having some dungeons that favor turteling/bashing with small corridors is fine as well. Thats also a valid tactic - and why should the rainbow college ALWAYS have the advantage of open grounds? After all, thats one of the main differences between DB and BB.

my god this is still going
yes on a roll of 1 no action can be made just like bone head
skill can be named a different thing but cat the same as bone head
Death roller - engine stall
chain saw - engine stall or chain break (spends turn fixing it)
ball and chain - to heavy - or pulled muscle
bomber- wet fuse

so come on its not that hard

It is hard, because it needs GW's approval. So I am not sure, that introducing new rules is really an option. I would like it to be, though - my suggestion for the deathroller; I like the engine stall, 2+ to take action. Add to that, a 4+ to get engine running after (sort of treeman-ish to standup, without th cripling effect of take root).

Now, Archon makes a very good point. The real problem here is the secret weapon skill. So making an engine stall, will mean seperate skills on each SW. I like your suggestions Jester, but again, getting GW to approve on this? I think it will not be easy.

Simply raising all secret weapons cost by 50 % i really like. Smooth and simple, and makes sense and scales perfectly. Probably the best one overall I have heard so far.


@Evilstein.
I actually really like your suggestion about fouling. Can be sent off, but not if player deliberately does not stand up. Heck, the crowd and ref don't like pansies, right? But I think it might not be a smooth enough rule, and again - getting GW's approval - I think would be hard. But I really do like that suggestion, seems like a good compromise that would adress my issues with regular fouling - at least somewhat. Of the two poles, though, I have no doubt on which I like the most. Leave it as it is.

[Jolly Roger]

We can't remove de Death Roller or make it become a Star Player, because we can't change the official Games Workshop rosters.
But we can work on changing some rules, like the secret weapon. I'll let you know what we can do.

Cool Roger. Much appreciated, and thank you for giving us feedback and caring for the game. Well done.

my god this is still going
yes on a roll of 1 no action can be made just like bone head
skill can be named a different thing but cat the same as bone head
Death roller - engine stall
chain saw - engine stall or chain break (spends turn fixing it)
ball and chain - to heavy - or pulled muscle
bomber- wet fuse

so come on its not that hard

Um... why?
Chainsaw already has a 2+ roll before being used, its called Kickback.
Ball & chain is a liability enough - have fun moving one of those down a corridor next to a pit.
Bombers are fumble machines and will remove themselves quickly enough. Plus they can't move and throw in a turn, so keep out of range and they struggle to be any use.

And deathrollers? Yeah, they may be an issue... but they're MA4, just keep away from them. Or put players 5 squares away and watch them fail a GFI trying to blitz...

Edit: I would like to state, that having some dungeons that favor turteling/bashing with small corridors is fine as well. Thats also a valid tactic - and why should the rainbow college ALWAYS have the advantage of open grounds? After all, thats one of the main differences between DB and BB.

Because games in dungeons with *unavoidable bottlenecks* are predictable (all the action will end up happening ...ahem... around the unavoidable bottleneck) and involve exactly *zero* tactics.

Narrow passages are OK. Forcing the fairies to try tricky leaps or dodges is OK. Linear, boring dungeons like "Catacombs II" or "Prison" where you only have a single narrow route to score are not OK.

I know you're a fine coach, Archon, but it seems you play mainly Light or Bright. Have you tried "Catacombs II" or "Prison" with Rainbow? If the opposition is bashy, it's practically an auto-win for them.

EDIT, @ Jolly: Great to hear you're taking a closer look at the issue with the Deathroller.

Thanks Jolly,

The Secret Weapon trait (I keep using the word 'trait' in my posts..maybe it's all the CK2 I've been playing) and how it should be implemented into DB is really the crux of the matter... or using "Engine Stall on a roll of 1, etc." as Jester points out

my god this is still going
yes on a roll of 1 no action can be made just like bone head
skill can be named a different thing but cat the same as bone head
Death roller - engine stall
chain saw - engine stall or chain break (spends turn fixing it)
ball and chain - to heavy - or pulled muscle
bomber- wet fuse

so come on its not that hard

Um... why?
Chainsaw already has a 2+ roll before being used, its called Kickback.
Ball & chain is a liability enough - have fun moving one of those down a corridor next to a pit.
Bombers are fumble machines and will remove themselves quickly enough. Plus they can't move and throw in a turn, so keep out of range and they struggle to be any use.

And deathrollers? Yeah, they may be an issue... but they're MA4, just keep away from them. Or put players 5 squares away and watch them fail a GFI trying to blitz...

personally i dont think the "other" secret weapons need to be changes either
ONLY the Death roller
i did add the others to stop the wankers thank use the excuse the death roller is a secret weapon and not a big guy
we all know its a big guy and the clowns that say no are just splitting hairs

death roller needs bone head that simple

We can't remove de Death Roller or make it become a Star Player, because we can't change the official Games Workshop rosters.
But we can work on changing some rules, like the secret weapon. I'll let you know what we can do.

from memory (not working well though) the death roller was never part of a teams line up and was not part of official Games Workshop rosters...only in Blood bowl is it in the line up but this is dungeon bowl...
in Dungeon bowl (you know the game that is not blood bowl) the death roller is a star player

as for changing rules so you can change official rules but you cant change a team roster?... and you changed the rosters by letting teams have more than 4 blitzers and so on... so please if you are going to make stuff up please don't insult us. better to say "this is how we want it so tough to you players"

as for changing the secret weapon rule (not sure what you have planed) but why don't you put it to the community and see what the reaction is before you change it and possibly make it worse.
why waist time and resources on something you may have to change back... we may just save you time and money
so please no need for ego's and secrecy... we all want to help the bigger picture of getting this game as good as it can be

if you change secret weapon wont that affect the other secret weapon and make this house of cards fall down?

I love the game BTW

Edit: maybe just change the strength of the death roller from 7 to 5 like other big guys ... and if you all cry and say "trees have 6 strength" then fine... death roller strength 6 but move 3... or death roller strength 5 move 4 and Tree strength 5 move 4

We can't remove de Death Roller or make it become a Star Player, because we can't change the official Games Workshop rosters.
But we can work on changing some rules, like the secret weapon. I'll let you know what we can do.

as for changing rules so you can change official rules but you cant change a team roster?... and you changed the rosters by letting teams have more than 4 blitzers and so on... so please if you are going to make stuff up please don't insult us. better to say "this is how we want it so tough to you players"

Yeah, I found that funny as well, seeing as they'd already changed one of the 3 teams in the game.
Just remove the DR from the list of available players.

The Deathroller is fine. There are always counter-strategies. This instance of the game was never meant to be balanced. If we mess with one thing the whole house of cards comes down.

This.

The deathroller isn't all that unbalancing. Not much more than two Treemen. Like the trees, it's not that difficult to counter. All it takes is a little craftiness on your part, and you can take a Deathroller completely out-of-position. Then, when it's out of position, just mark it up with one of your average-to-high AV players and you've got 160K worth of your opponent's TV tied up on an expendable player. Also, with the amount of precarious position rolls in DB, I've seen about a half dozen death rollers fall in pit traps.

There's no need to potentially wreck the game, trying to correct for something that it's that out of line. Two out of the three colleges of magic have access to a DR, and the third has access to two Treemen. Fair enough.