Death Roller

soon going to be more colleges without access to it.
also whilst having 2 treemen is ok, they move half of what the DR does, they dont have break tackle to keep chasing what they need to and they have the rooted downside which means you can ignore them. one of my opponents had his tree root at the back of his DZ so it took no part at all in the game.

The deathroller isn't all that unbalancing. Not much more than two Treemen. Like the trees, it's not that difficult to counter. All it takes is a little craftiness on your part, and you can take a Deathroller completely out-of-position. Then, when it's out of position, just mark it up with one of your average-to-high AV players and you've got 160K worth of your opponent's TV tied up on an expendable player. Also, with the amount of precarious position rolls in DB, I've seen about a half dozen death rollers fall in pit traps.

I don't agree with very much of this. Treemen are unreliable with take root and even getting them into position to be usefull can be derailed by take root not to mention having half the move of the DR. (Need to pass two 2+ rolls and spend 2 turns just to do what the DR does in one turn with no rolls.) They can't even effectively use a teleporter without passing a GFI to get back off the teleporter. And this is only after they pass take root just to move.

Good coaches will not get their DR out of position. Map dependant obvously, but they can effectively shutdown any 3 square wide hallway as it would require 3 dodges (2 into TZ's) and most likely 3 PP rolls as well.

Marking a DR is next to useless. Break Tackle with effective 7 AG? Sure there is a 1/6 chance they fail, but that is not what I would call reliably tieing up a player and keeping them out of position.

I do agree with trying to get them in position to fall into pits, but this only works if the opposing coach is willing to take the risk and is actively using their DR versus using it in the middle of a bridge or hallway.

I don't think its gamebreaking or anything, but the DR seems to be a must have because of its influence on the game. I started both my teams without the DR and eventually just bought one on each team. The most effective way to combat the DR is to just bring one yourself. Elves have to pray they find the ball first and then hope they can pass enough leaps and dodges to score. Sometimes it works, but more often than not if fails.

There's no need to potentially wreck the game, trying to correct for something that it's that out of line. Two out of the three colleges of magic have access to a DR, and the third has access to two Treemen. Fair enough.

Wreck the game? You realize there was no playtesting for balance, right? The rosters are adapted from a set of rules based on an earlier version of Blood Bowl, and that set of rules was itself based on a supplement for an even earlier version of Blood Bowl. There were never any "official" rules for playing Dungeonbowl under the current ruleset, so there is nothing to be ruined.

As has been said previously, the article that is being used as the basis for these rosters is very out-of-date. The simplest solution is to simply remove the Deathroller. I wonder if the developers have specifically discussed this option with GW, or if they are just assuming the worst (understandable, if so).

Just say that a Deathrollerwon't fit down the dungeon's stairs or whatever, if you need a clever explanation for its removal.

Treemen are unreliable with take root and even getting them into position to be usefull can be derailed by take root not to mention having half the move of the DR. (Need to pass two 2+ rolls and spend 2 turns just to do what the DR does in one turn with no rolls.) They can't even effectively use a teleporter without passing a GFI to get back off the teleporter. And this is only after they pass take root just to move.

This is true, but most people I've seen use their Treemen foolishly. Two treemen can cover your entire endzone with TZs, and the only thing that can punch throw (consistently) is a deathroller. I don't play Elves, but if I did, I'd use the Trees as defense. All you need to do is move them two spaces forward, which is a risk of 1 Take Root each. Then leave them.

Good coaches will not get their DR out of position.

This happens a whole lot more than you think. I played four ranked matches in a row (two of which were against top-twenty ranked coaches) where my opponent had a DR and I didn't. I got the DR out of position in every single game. I also won all four of those matches. Unless your DR is spear-heading your cage, it's effectively not where it should be. Even really great coaches tend to mess that up. Another thing to note is that even if your DR is in position, your rushing game is forced to commit to the direction it's going (usually in a choke point). Reversing your field will only take the DR out of position. Once again, this can work to the defense's advantage, because you know exactly where to expect the attack. If you get some players behind the cage, it will normally break because there aren't other options.

Marking a DR is next to useless. Break Tackle with effective 7 AG? Sure there is a 1/6 chance they fail, but that is not what I would call reliably tieing up a player and keeping them out of position.

This is absolutely incorrect. It makes sense on paper, but in the game, it's really useful. First of all, for some reason, many coaches like to warp their DR into the dungeon. I'm perplexed as to why they do this, but it happens a lot. So, if you mark the DR by positioning your player between the DR and the rest of his force, you can really delay the DR getting to the rest of his team. If, in the event that the DR is near the cage, but not in the cage, you mark it up and force it to make a dodge roll into multiple TZs.

I do agree with trying to get them in position to fall into pits, but this only works if the opposing coach is willing to take the risk and is actively using their DR versus using it in the middle of a bridge or hallway.

This is very map-dependent. In maps with mostly walls and very few pit-traps, it's very hard to accomplish. But in maps where there's few walls and lots of lava/abyss/empty space, it's typically pretty easy to get a DR into a position with an adjacent pit trap. Even if the DR fails to fall in, you can often force your opponent to waste his rerolls on precarious position rolls. Still a good thing.

I don't think its gamebreaking or anything, but the DR seems to be a must have because of its influence on the game. I started both my teams without the DR and eventually just bought one on each team. The most effective way to combat the DR is to just bring one yourself.

I completely agree with you here. I'm not a proponent of DRs because I think they're necessary. I just don't think they should fix something that isn't broken. I typically play Bright College, and my starting lineup never includes a DR. I buy one later to even the odds. Nevertheless, I've never lost a game where an opponent had a DR and I didn't, so like you said, they can't be that unbalancing.

theres only 1 or 2 maps where trees can effectively block off the endzone so no they are not that good. also if you knock a tree down he needs a 4+ to stand.
deathrollers change how you have to play your game more than any other player. its not too slow for dungeons, its hard to take out (AV10) has break tackle so can move away happily, stand firm so you cant even more it. I have seen them with guard now as well so even harder breaking the square.
their downside in BB to make up for how insane they were was they got one drive. a good elf player would make this last 2 turns. in DB there is only one drive so the downside has gone.

every big guy has a downside except 1. the DR. he needs a negative

Nevertheless, I've never lost a game where an opponent had a DR and I didn't, so like you said, they can't be that unbalancing.

You can"t only compare only with your experience. You have to compare with the whole coachs of DB, matching together.In therm of statistics and game balance, Death Roller ruins the game.

deathrollers change how you have to play your game more than any other player.

Yeah, E=MC²

I just don't think they should fix something that isn't broken.

The Death Roller is by nature, broken in DB. You see Secret Weapon skill ? It's mathematic.
You even don't have to playtest for having this conclusion.

In therm of statistics and game balance, Death Roller ruins the game.

Do you have the statistics to back that claim up?

The deathroller is definitely the best value for money big guy in DB, and could do with a proper negi-trait being added. But as it stands it doesn't ruin the game - bloodbowl has always had imbalances between teams, and this is just another one of those.

Nevertheless, I've never lost a game where an opponent had a DR and I didn't, so like you said, they can't be that unbalancing.

You can"t only compare only with your experience. You have to compare with the whole coachs of DB, matching together.In therm of statistics and game balance, Death Roller ruins the game.

This argument doesn't even make sense. I just told you that good coaching can take a DR out of the game. You come back with "statistics" (that don't exist)? Fact = You can outcoach a deathroller. So it isn't OP. End of story.

Of course I don't have make the statistics (winning rate).
But, you just have to make the winning rate of each team with or without the Death Roller.

I 'm sure that, the statistics will talk about this.

The deathroller isn't all that unbalancing. Not much more than two Treemen.

Treeman is a waste of money. I like when my oponent has even 3 of them. They are slow and they would take root soon, becames almost completly useless. One thing more - please count how much cost 2 treeman and how much deathroller (and even you agree that DR is stronger than 2 trees).

Like the trees, it's not that difficult to counter. All it takes is a little craftiness on your part, and you can take a Deathroller completely out-of-position. Then, when it's out of position, just mark it up with one of your average-to-high AV players and you've got 160K worth of your opponent's TV tied up on an expendable player. Also, with the amount of precarious position rolls in DB, I've seen about a half dozen death rollers fall in pit traps.

You probably never played against a good coach with DR. First - DR has a break tackle, so it's very hard to mark. Second - skilled DR owner never allow to get this machine out-of-position or to be lured in meaningless blocks with a lineman.
Of course - you can always be lucky. But I wouldn't agree, that luck is proper counter strategy.
I repeat - the only effective counter strategy for DR, is to have one in our team. It makes DR an obligatory player. And it makes this game dull and boring.

There's no need to potentially wreck the game, trying to correct for something that it's that out of line. Two out of the three colleges of magic have access to a DR, and the third has access to two Treemen. Fair enough.

The problem is, that this game is already wrecked. And argument that 2 out of 3 available colleges has an access to DR, so it's ok, is laughable.