Deathroller & Big Guys

But WHY do you feel that the game needs so many strong players to be entertaining? Especially when it creates other issues, which you then have to counter with extra rules?

What I do not find entertaining and what goes against the original DB setting is the time limitation. Without the time limitation there would be no need to warp players out after T16.
Which would've made playing bashy, thus using (many) BGs, not that big of a deal.

Another reason I dislike the time limitation is that it prevents using large maps which would've favoured AG and MV players. Now, because of the time limitation, only small maps can be used and DB is reduced to an ordinary cage fight where there is no place for nimble or fast players.
Heck there is even no need to score a TD in order to win, because bashing your opponent off the field gives a better reward.

But in the end I'm all for giving coaches more options instead of limiting them.
Anyways, my theory that figures should only be considered BG when they meet the 4 criterea I've mentioned is not new, it is what has always been the case.
Minotaurs, Ogres, Treemen, Trolls, etc all do just that.

[Tristelune]

I proposed to cyanide to code like a defeat when you have 0 players on the pitch, as you can conceding a match when you have 2 or less players for a kick-off at BB

Tristelune, did you propose 1) a coach can voluntarily end the match without losing their MVP and gold winnings when they have 0 players left or 2) the match will automatically end? If you proposed 2), what happens to the loser's MVP and gold winnings?

[Tristelune]

today if you have none players on the pitch you loose like you conceding a match (no MVP and no money)

In BB you can conceding a match if you have 2 or les players on the pitch for a kicck-off witout more penalty.

I proposed this rule will applicated when in DB, all your players are warped :

- a touchdown is given to win team with MVP and money.
- the team had loosed win MVP and money like a defeat.

I just want applied the rule of BB to DB, make a different of conceding a match because you doesn't want continued and because you can't play more (no players)

Ok, thanks! That's a good proposal, thanks for making it!

I think the same solution has been proposed several times here on the forum, hopefully your proposal finally goes through.

That is a good solution - I hope that cyanide adopt it (maybe our English language moderators could put their support to this too? Help make sure that cyanide know that there's community support for such a change).

But WHY do you feel that the game needs so many strong players to be entertaining? Especially when it creates other issues, which you then have to counter with extra rules?

What I do not find entertaining and what goes against the original DB setting is the time limitation. Without the time limitation there would be no need to warp players out after T16.
Which would've made playing bashy, thus using (many) BGs, not that big of a deal.

Another reason I dislike the time limitation is that it prevents using large maps which would've favoured AG and MV players. Now, because of the time limitation, only small maps can be used and DB is reduced to an ordinary cage fight where there is no place for nimble or fast players.
Heck there is even no need to score a TD in order to win, because bashing your opponent off the field gives a better reward.

But in the end I'm all for giving coaches more options instead of limiting them.
Anyways, my theory that figures should only be considered BG when they meet the 4 criterea I've mentioned is not new, it is what has always been the case.
Minotaurs, Ogres, Treemen, Trolls, etc all do just that.

Given that there's no other positional limits I reckon that the limit on big guys should be lifted too (mainly because, as meltyman said, big guys generally lose you games, not win them - and I'd like to give my opponents as many chances to help me as I can ).

I disagree with your points on the time limit though. I seen plenty of dungeons which are large enough to favour running and agility teams, and are still playable within 24 turns. There is an issue with there being too many small, cramped, dungeons in the official list used for matchmaking, but I think that's just bad dungeon design issues, and will hopefully become less of a problem as more community favourites are added to the list.

Given that there's no other positional limits I reckon that the limit on big guys should be lifted too (mainly because, as meltyman said, big guys generally lose you games, not win them - and I'd like to give my opponents as many chances to help me as I can ).

Exactly, there is a reason why some teams, like the Dark Elfs can't field BGs in their BB teams as regular players. Then again they don't really need 1.
And I agree that BG = slow player, but that is the general trade off.

The problem is that because of the time limitation playing bashy has become the norm. And even when you field a team specialised in speed and / or AG scoring becomes impossible if you do not have the ball. Therefore you need to be bashy too in order to steal the ball from you opponent.
So why not forego nimble & fast players in favour of Strong ones or BGs when you can also win by bashing your opponent's team off the dungeon ans start bashing your opponent from the get go?
Those coaches who wish to win by scoring a TD have the find the ball 1st, thus bashing coaches start with an important strategic advantage; time is on their side from the get go and after T16 it only gets better (since nimble & fast players generally are also squashy).

I disagree with your points on the time limit though. I seen plenty of dungeons which are large enough to favour running and agility teams, and are still playable within 24 turns.

Imo a map is only large when it can take you at least 30 minutes just to find the ball.
When I played the tt version of DB it wasn't uncommon that nearly 1/2 or 3/4th of the ceiling floor was used for the map, so finding the ball really becomes a challenge. (And trust me you would favour nimble or fast players on these kinda maps)
No table would've been large enough to support the maps I've played on.
And because of the time limition these kinda dungeons aren't possible anymore.
Nowadays the dungeons aren't real dungeons anyway, they are more indoor BB fields.

A) he must have at least ST5
B) must have Loner in conjuction with being Wild, Really Stupid or any other negative trait
C) must have no normal access to General Skills
D) be of gigantic proportions (read: must have a bigger base than normal)

Well steps A, C and D in your list are pointless since there are no permanent team members that start with loner, have general access or have strength less than 5 when bought new and all of them are large models.

So you may as well go back to the old rules as your list excludes not only the fanatic, mummies and guardians, ogre team ogres, Halfling treemen but also the deathroller. So is exactly the same as the original rule except now a team can have a roller and 2 loner big guys. I’m sure everyone counts a treeman as a big guy regardless of whether he has loner or not. That would mean Jade would still be penalised and bright and light would be given more of an advantage.

I’m guessing the issue is coding to stop players picking a human team ogre, dwarf deathroller and norse yheti. So Darkson’s suggestion of assigning a player the specification “Big guy” would be simplest. It doesn’t have to be a special rule just in his description so an “Orc team Troll big guy” Just like you’d get an “Orc team Blitzer”.


I’m sure GW wouldn’t allow my idea of having set mixed race rosters, but they have already let Cyanide make equally significant changes. The teams published in the 2nd edition rulebook and the 3rd edition white dwarf article are already very different from what we have now. Some races have been changed and they have got rid of the positional limits too.

Oh and if you want to change the rules for when a team runs out of players there are several solutions.

1) Team which runs out of players loses as if they other team had scored. Winner gets a TD either assigned to player with/nearest the ball or randomly.
2) The match is played on and if the other team doesn’t score in time it is a draw.
3) The match is played on and if the other team doesn’t score in time it is a treated as if both teams have lost.
4) The match is played on and if the other team doesn’t score in time it is a treated as if both teams have conceded!

So Darkson’s suggestion of assigning a player the specification “Big guy” would be simplest.

The negative effect on Jade was only one of the issues being discussed. This solution does nothing to impact the Deathroller.