Deathroller & Big Guys

So much easier when the "big guys" had the Big Guy skill (always disagreed with it's removal).
Though that wouldn't have addressed the DR.

I can think of many easy ways to fix the problem, but then I wouldn't involve GW, so I wouldn't have to deal with their stupidity and paranoia over rule changes and IP issues.

Well steps A, C and D in your list are pointless since there are no permanent team members that start with loner, have general access or have strength less than 5 when bought new and all of them are large models.!

Really? What about a Troll? Does a Troll not start with ST5?
Is a Troll not a Loner in conjunction with Really Stupid?
Does a Troll not have to roll doubles in order to access General Skills?
Is a Troll not considered a Giant because he originally started out with a big base?
Or the Yeti, Minotaur or Treeman?

To me a Fanatic, Mummie, or Tomb Guard are NOT BGs.
I'm not concerned whether a DR is a BG because I personally consider him a secret weapon, but I'm fine when everyone else classifies him a BG (he is the only Secret Weapon that already has Loner anyway).
My main concern is to not classify the Mummie, Fanatic and the Tomb Guard as BGs for BB and DB, which my theory does perfectly.

I’m sure everyone counts a treeman as a big guy regardless of whether he has loner or not.

Where have I implied otherwise?
I've only pointed out that in BB it was only fair to not penalize the 1/2ling teams and Ogre teams any further by giving their Treemen and Ogres Loner too. I never denied or implied that they weren't BGs.

If ya ask me whether or not the Ogre or Treeman does or doesn't have Loner in DB normally should not make much of a difference. The thing is that in the current setting with a limited time and having small maps, playing bashy is too heavily favoured which in turn makes BGs a big deal.
Remove the time limitation and the BG become a much lesser threat.

The discution about what is a big guy or not, is boring an usless, bercause expetion come for the balance of the game (like Gobs, Half teams in Blood Bowl).

Trickyjuste write per College (use every one, total of 10) the limitation you want for the " Big guys" or almost "Big Guys"

ex:
Jade College (5 Trolls + 1 Fanatique) allowed
Bright 1 Death Roller Or 1 Yethi+1 Ogre
Rainbow 2 of this (Ogre+Treeman+2 half Treeman) etc...

For me it's simple, 2 starting STR5 s player limitation.
The Fanatic does not count , mercenaries does not count into the limitation.
The Death Roller is a Star Player

The discution about what is a big guy or not, is boring an usless, bercause expetion come for the balance of the game (like Gobs, Half teams in Blood Bowl).

Yeah. well you might find the whole discussion boring but it is everything but useless, because of complainers like you it is very important to classify exactly what is and is not a BG. And if it was up to you Evilstein everything with ST5 would be considered a BG.
Heck, to classify what is or isn't a BG is even important for BB coaches because they don't know how to classify a Mummy.
The problem in BB is that Mummy, Tom Guardians etc are all special players which they can't simply classify as Blockers.

Trickyjuste write per College (use every one, total of 10) the limitation you want for the " Big guys" or almost "Big Guys"

No because a BG in DB must also be a BG in BB.
For example once a Mummy is not classified as a BG in DB then he must also not be classified as a BG in BB, It would be strange to call a Mummy not a BG in DB but yet be a BG in BB.

And let's be honest don't you at least not find it a litle bit odd that in BB you can field 2 Trolls and a Fanatic, but that this suddenly has become impossible in DB? I know you would justify it by saying that in DB you can only have 2 BGs in a team, but a Fanatic is not a BG.
And would it also not be unbalanced for undead coaches that if you got your way and everything with ST5 would be classified as BGs then a Mummy would be a BG?
The Undead team already is slow as hell, impairing them further by saying that the 2 Mummies are the only ST5 players they can field would simply be unfair and imbalances the game.

Really? What about a Troll? Does a Troll not start with ST5?
Is a Troll not a Loner in conjunction with Really Stupid?
Does a Troll not have to roll doubles in order to access General Skills?
Is a Troll not considered a Giant because he originally started out with a big base?
Or the Yeti, Minotaur or Treeman?

To me a Fanatic, Mummie, or Tomb Guard are NOT BGs.
I'm not concerned whether a DR is a BG because I personally consider him a secret weapon, but I'm fine when everyone else classifies him a BG (he is the only Secret Weapon that already has Loner anyway).
My main concern is to not classify the Mummie, Fanatic and the Tomb Guard as BGs for BB and DB, which my theory does perfectly.

You completely missed the point.

So I’ll ask you a question in return. Name me a permanent player that starts with loner and is not a big guy?

I’ll break it down further, under the original cyanide loner rule the following did not count as big guys.
Halfling treeman, ogre team ogre, goblin fanatic, mummies, tomb guardians.
Under your theory the following are excluded.
Halfling treeman, ogre team ogre, goblin fanatic, mummies, tomb guardians, Deathroller.

Well done, you added 3 extra restrictions and all you managed to accomplish was excluding the most complained about player in the game. As I already pointed out the loner rule already did the job of your theory’s main aims in 1 simple step. The trouble with the loner rule it was that it allowed some teams to have 4 big guys but restricted others to just 2, even when their sole tertiary choice was trolls.

Where have I implied otherwise?
I've only pointed out that in BB it was only fair to not penalize the 1/2ling teams and Ogre teams any further by giving their Treemen and Ogres Loner too. I never denied or implied that they weren't BGs.

If ya ask me whether or not the Ogre or Treeman does or doesn't have Loner in DB normally should not make much of a difference. The thing is that in the current setting with a limited time and having small maps, playing bashy is too heavily favoured which in turn makes BGs a big deal.
Remove the time limitation and the BG become a much lesser threat.

As Darkson said (twice), his idea solves that big guy disparity issue but does not address deathrollers being too good when not restricted by secret weapon.

I’d be interested to hear if people think that non-deathroller big guys should be restricted to a maximum of 2? It seems a bit unfair that grey get 0-2 non-loner ogres on top of their normal team (Chaos and humans) whilst jade are stuck with mostly a primary goblin team that can already have 2 trolls.

That might be a solution, to have 2 deliberate weaker teams. Maybe restrict all teams to 0-2 big guys except Jade and let them have 3 or even 4 trolls, you could allow them more secret weapons too.
I’d also remove the deathroller from Bright and Light and make a new joke team, something like 0-16 halflings, 0-6 human linemen*, 0-2 human catchers*, 0-2 human blitzers*, 0-1 human throwers* and 0-2 deathrollers.
(*maximum of 6 humans total).

I’ll break it down further, under the original cyanide loner rule the following did not count as big guys.
Halfling treeman, ogre team ogre, goblin fanatic, mummies, tomb guardians.

Really? Then why does Evilstein wants to classify everyone who starts with ST5 as a BG?

Under your theory the following are excluded.
Halfling treeman, ogre team ogre, goblin fanatic, mummies, tomb guardians, Deathroller.

Under my theory the 1/2ling Treeman, Ogre team Ogre are BGs, but it was GW decision to not give them Loner too in order to balance the BB Ogre & 1/2ling teams.

So in my theory the Goblin Fanatic, the Mummy & the Tomb Guardian are not BGs.
Neither would be the Bull Centaur or DR.
I get that some coaches don't like the DR in DB, but my reasoning what is or is not a BG has nothing to do with that.

Well done, you added 3 extra restrictions and all you managed to accomplish was excluding the most complained about player in the game. As I already pointed out the loner rule already did the job of your theory’s main aims in 1 simple step. The trouble with the loner rule it was that it allowed some teams to have 4 big guys but restricted others to just 2, even when their sole tertiary choice was trolls.

Maybe so but my theory still perfectly explains why the Chaos Pact team would still have been possible in DB (pick the Ogre that doesn't suffer from Loner), while under the current rules of DB Chaos Pact would've become impossible since they can have 3 BGs in their team which isn't allowed anymore.


As far as naming a permanent player that starts with Loner and is not a BG, how about every other Chaos Pact player that isn't a BG but suffers from Animosity? If I understand it correctly Animosity is a form of Loner?
I've never played Chaos Pact myself so I could be wrong.

I’d be interested to hear if people think that non-deathroller big guys should be restricted to a maximum of 2? It seems a bit unfair that grey get 0-2 non-loner ogres on top of their normal team (Chaos and humans) whilst jade are stuck with mostly a primary goblin team that can already have 2 trolls.

What would be really interesting is if the Chaos team had to choose between minotaurs and ogres. Or if the goblin team had to choose between 2 trolls+fanatic or 2 non-Loner trolls.

As far as naming a permanent player that starts with Loner and is not a BG, how about every other Chaos Pact player that isn't a BG but suffers from Animosity? If I understand it correctly Animosity is a form of Loner?
I've never played Chaos Pact myself so I could be wrong.

Animosity only effects passing the ball (i.e. the player wont pass it to certain other team mates without passing a skill check first), it's not as debilitating as loner.

Animosity only effects passing the ball (i.e. the player wont pass it to certain other team mates without passing a skill check first), it's not as debilitating as loner.

Ah, but that still means that players who suffer from Animosity aren't teamplayers either, just like Loners.
Besidez, just because a figure has Loner should not mean that he is a BG anywayz.
I know Starplayers aren't part of any regular team but they all have Loner, right?
And not all of them are BGs.

And for the record I think that the Jade team should have non-Loner Trolls.
I mean a Goblin team (or in DB's case the Jade College) has just as much chance of winning a DB match as the Ogre team in BB.

but it was GW decision to not give them Loner too in order to balance the BB Ogre & 1/2ling teams.

It was Not GW decision, it was the decision of the Blood Bowl Rules Commity (Jervis Johnson inside).

Yeah. well you might find the whole discussion boring but it is everything but useless, because of complainers like you it is very important to classify exactly what is and is not a BG. And if it was up to you Evilstein everything with ST5 would be considered a BG (not at all, Big Buy is just a trick to make it simple, btw it doesn't work for you ).
Heck, to classify what is or isn't a BG is even important for BB coaches because they don't know how to classify a Mummy

It's not a Trap Tricky, you don't answer my question, some clue but not a true answer.

Write here the rosters you want.
It' not about Big Guys it's about balance between the rosters.

Talking about the definition of big guys is like talking about the sex of the angels.