Death Roller

We are aware of the Death Roller problem. In a future update, we are going to reintroduce the arbitrator in the dungeons. So the Death Roller might be kick out when he assaults a player on the floor. This should redress the balance.

You are aware but you don't understand. The problem is not The Death Roller Fouls, it's the Death Roller.

The negative trait secret weapon have NO COUNTER PART.
So you might remove the deathroller from the game till you try to code something new for this negative trait.
Try to play Dungon Bowl maybe and do the maths. You know nothing about Blood Bowl, so listen to the community.

The simple solution is to remove it and make it a star player (remember to give lonely to the treemen too).


For fouling : A good idea can be : If a player don't get up (in order to block the corridors) you can foul it with no chance to be send off.

There's also the fact that the referee's absence is the result of a misinterpretation of the DB rules on Cyanide's part, as Jolly has said somewhere else.

Thus, re-introducing the ref brings the digital game closer into line with the written rules. Regardless of whether that's sensible or not, the members of our community do not tend to complain about compliance with the written word.

EDIT: cross-posted with Evilstein, we have two conversations (for lack of a better term) going on right now...

EDIT #2, @Bucc: I don't doubt you're an experienced coach. Experienced coaches can disagree, too. We all *do* seem to agree that the Deathroller is way too good. As for Jolly bringing the issue of fouling into the discussion, which is a tangential concern as far as the DR is involved, I suspect it has more to do with the hassle of getting GW to sign off on rules changes (such as the ones that would be needed to nerf the DR) than with ignorance on his/her part.

Anyway, this thread is getting somewhat surreal. Two related, but definitely different, issues have cropped up, the fouling thang and the thang about predictable dungeons with unavoidable bottlenecks, and they probably deserve their own threads.

In the board game, the secret weapons are ejected in turn used if you roll a 1 on the die, they must change this now

No they're not - read the rules.


And in opposition to Bucc, as an experienced player, I say that the Sending Off rules need to be put into place as written.
A further nerf to the DR (either a negatrait or a price increase) should also be considered, but the correct fouling rules are an absolute minimum.

I've played many games of Blood Bowl (PC) and have just started playing DB. I am enjoying DB a great deal and hope the fan base continues to grow...we need a higher number of players, so it's easier to get a ranked match online!

In regards to the Deathroller, I agree with Evilstein and whats being conveyed in this thread: The Deathroller needs to be nerfed, but as Evilstein mentions, it is the Deathroller in its totality which is the problem...not just when it fouls. It is simply an overpowered player while its in the dungeon...period. And with the Ogre, Treeman, Yhetee et al limited by their traits (and sometimes even useless in the most important scenarios) the Deathroller relatively becomes:

For fouling in general, Bucc makes a valid point, definitely something to consider within the confines of a dungeon; however, it is called "fouling" for a reason, and repercussions should be considered when pummeling an opponent who is lying on the ground defenseless. Maybe I'm taking it too far, but Dungeonbowl IS a 'sport,' so it is bound by certain rules which make it one.

I've been lurking this forum, but this is my first post because I feel strongly about this one topic (Deathroller).

I love the game, so I just want to see it improve as time goes on. (Can't wait for the new races as well!)

Detox

Surely you can assist with both blocking and fouling, right? I was able to whenever i played the game. Your strawmen called you, they asked if you are still looking for your common sense.

But fine, i don't really want to discuss it. There are 2 different opinions on this. But don't come in here crying after they introduce being sent off. Because i will tell you, that I said so.

4 assists for a 1D block. I guess if his DR goes off all alone, and you manage to get half your team on him for assists, sure then it makes sense. How often are you able to 4 assists on a block against a competant dwarf coach? FOUR. You need to have the thing surrounded on 3 sides and commit 5 of your players for a 1D block. If he let's you do it go for it, but I don't play many coaches that will let this happen.

For fouling, you need 3 assists so four of your players to do what the dwarf needs 1 player to do. (Foul on an 8+)

Surely the Dwarf can assist on his fouls as well, correct? So, what are his other 9 players doing while you have 5 of yours tied up trying to block his DR that he decided to completely abandon? Fouling elves on a 5+? Who wins that war?

We can agree to disagree, but saying I lack common sense......

and just for giggles i built a team( non ranked) that has a deathroller, yeti, 2 treeman and a werewolf crazy that its even allowed.
deathroller should be kicked out and teams limited to 2 big guys or whatever their main race has. seeing woodelf teams with halfling treemen (to lose loner) is also getting a bit old but its join or die.

@ Detox

Okay, so I am only allowed to have ST 3 players on my team. That seems fair.

I would say assisting in fouls is easiere with MA 7, AG 4 than with MA 4, AG 2. Maybe it is just me? But who said, that I am all of a sudden an AV 7 player?

This is about fouling in DB, and the potential for being sent off. Lets just say, that fouling in regular BB is very weak - and very often not worth it. In DB, if you introduce being sent off, it becomes a hell of a lot weaker than even in BB. For reasons I have listed. Due to the obstacles, having players blocking corridors, that you will have a hard time getting enough assists on fouling to be worthwhile (i am looking at the downed dwarf blocker here), will be a major isue. IF you managed to foul the player to a KO, he will come back (for the first 16 turns). You get sent off for fouling? - too bad, you are not allowed to rejoin.

Let's agree to disagree. But your arguements are lacking, I am very clear in my stance.

@ Darkson. I always respect your opinion - even though you are often wrong Kidding, mate. But I hope you do even play DB, before taking a stance.

@ Csbear.
A very reasonable post. I agree with most, but not all.

@Brihaspati.
I agree with that last post of yours. But disagree with the fouling aspect. I agree that it merits its own topic. I think it is a crucial thing to discuss.

EDIT:
Just to be clear. The written rules, is a very, very strong arguement. The strongest, there is. I can't deny that Darkson. Thing is, to me, is this case the game actually benifits from this non-compliance. Here is an opportunity to have an improved game, I think it should be embraced.

And Brihaspati. I agree, that GW is a major obstacle here, in that making up rules for the deathroller is not easily done. I just get a bit frustrated, when Roger makes it sounds like the deathroller problem is being adressed, like it is a 'yuhuuuu' thing. It is not being adressed. He should talk about fouling, not about how they balance the deathroller.

@ Detox

Okay, so I am only allowed to have ST 3 players on my team. That seems fair.

I would say assisting in fouls is easiere with MA 7, AG 4 than with MA 4, AG 2. Maybe it is just me? But who said, that I am all of a sudden an AV 7 player?

This is about fouling in DB, and the potential for being sent off. Lets just say, that fouling in regular BB is very weak - and very often not worth it. In DB, if you introduce being sent off, it becomes a hell of a lot weaker than even in BB. For reasons I have listed. Due to the obstacles, having players blocking corridors, that you will have a hard time getting enough assists on fouling to be worthwhile (i am looking at the downed dwarf blocker here), will be a major isue. IF you managed to foul the player to a KO, he will come back (for the first 16 turns). You get sent off for fouling? - too bad, you are not allowed to rejoin.

Let's agree to disagree. But your arguements are lacking, I am very clear in my stance.

We are talking about different situations here then I think. I am talking about how teams can deal with the DR and the potential that it is overpowered as it stands now. (Death Roller thread.) You suggested fouling it and that changing the rules for fouling would be a major detriment to this. If you are playing elves, I don't see this being a viable way to handle the DR regardless of what fouling rules are in place. Tell me what part of this arguement you want me to bolster and I will.

IMO, fouling as it is now is a big detriment to elves/low AV teams. When it is implented properly (I know you prefer the current form, but as you said it is in the rules.) it will then be a detriment to dwarf vs dwarf where one player blocks a corridor with bodies on the ground. The elves will just go over the top. (In most situations.) If this becomes the norm for dwarves in the meta to litter corridors with prone players, you will see people take skills to compensate. Jug, Grab, Frenzy, etc so that they are not allowed to mass up bodies as a road block. I personally don't see this situation being as common or damaging as having people putting the boot to AV 7 every turn with no draw back.

You might be right and your assertions are sound. (Talking about the fouling issue.) I'm not going to pretend that I know the "right" answer. IMO the situation you are worried about is not enough of a drawback to allow consequence free fouling. I still want fouling to be tactical and require some thought vs, hey there's someone on the ground, BOOT.

@ Darkson. I always respect your opinion - even though you are often wrong Kidding, mate. But I hope you do even play DB, before taking a stance.

I do, but not this poor version.

All of you only talk about the death roller, when the secret weapon skill (and playing only 1 drive) is the real problem. I can only imagine, what would happen if a college is introduced with goblins as second or third race. How would you handle a chainsaw or the bombardier?

So - what do you - experianced - coaches think of the different possibilities to handle secret weapon:

• Increase the cost of the player by x % (50?)
• let him roll anytime he makes an action (or only a blitz/block?) and sent him off on a 1.
• alter some other rules (only as idea for example): make the precarious position roll for them a 3+ (bullying of other players)
• another idea?

Edit: I would like to state, that having some dungeons that favor turteling/bashing with small corridors is fine as well. Thats also a valid tactic - and why should the rainbow college ALWAYS have the advantage of open grounds? After all, thats one of the main differences between DB and BB.