Deathroller & Big Guys

since when are gutter runners that good? they are 1 faster than a wardancer, dont have block or leap as standard and are ST2.

yes once they skill up and get leap, very long legs, sidestep and block they are awesome but as you only get 1TD per match in DB skilling up takes a long time, unlike BB where your runners can level up in 1 game easily

Because I assume that you can start with all 4 Gutter Runners in your team; all with MV9, AG4 and Dodge.
And they have access to mutation.

When trying to score speed is the name of the game, so having ST2 should not be a problem. Or you can always take Wrestle if you are intent on forcing an opening with your Runner. I rather use other players in my team for things like that.
And to skill up faster passing to other Gutter Runners shouldn't be a problem with AG4 (and MV9).

scoring in BB requires speed. scoring in DB isnt all about speed.
and passing isnt always great, using up rerolls etc to get 1SPP as you will roll lots of 1s. also with precarious positions a misthought pass could see you lose a runner.
if speed and passing worked you would see alot of highly levelled rainbow teams (all fast, all AG4) but it doesnt happen. ST2 is a major problem as even a single dwarf blocker can drop you easily as even on one block die he has a 50% chance to drop you but he has 2 block dice.

iirc skaven also only get mutations on a double roll as well so its really not that easy to have all these amazing gutter runners. dont get me wrong i like gutter runners in normal BB and have taken skaven to the big tourneys at GW HQ but they are not as good in DB until levelled up to a few skills (leap, very long legs being one of the best combos but again requires a double roll)

All true and I guess it depends which race reinforces the Skavens to lessen the Skaven's inherent weakness.
And I admit that if the Skaven's team does not find the ball 1st scoring will be problematic.

So if playing bashy has too big an advantage over scoring in DB (and this seems to be the case since you can get twice the MVP for being last man standing) the nimble characters should be able to get a special AG skill where they get an automatic reroll when it concerns traps (precarious positions).
And the mutation 2 Heads should give this ability also since the other head can keep his eyes out for traps.

well i did suggest surefeet be modified to do just that as it makes sense, they are sure on their feet

If you agree that the mutation 2 Heads does the same then I'm all for it.

Better yet, 2 Heads should give a -1 difficulty on all Ag rolls (like dodge & precarious positions).
This way the combo of Sure Feet (precarious rerolls) and 2 Heads is awesome.

precarious position is not an agility roll, its a straight roll of 2+ on d6 to avoid. if it was agility you would see all the DRs in the pits.

Well in that case 2 Heads should also give an automatic reroll when it comes to precarious positions since 1 of the heads can always look out for traps.

Simple, Big Guys are every starting ST5 player exept the fanatic.

Uhm, no not every starting ST5 player is a Big Guy, to me Big Guys have to do with size and not ST. It used to be that every BG's base was bigger than normal (non-ST5) Characters. To me it makes perfect sense that a small character (the size of a Snotling) can possess (read: start with) ST5 and NOT be a BG (like the Fanatic).
Heck, in the beginning of DB a BG could not enter a 1 Sq wide corridor because his base didn't fit in there (and if I'm not mistaken 3 snotlings could fit on the base of 1 normal-sized character).

To simplify it: Big Guy does not automatically mean being a strong guy, simply because not every strong character has to be big.

The difficulty is when you apply a unifying rule to try and include everything that would be seen as a “big guy” so you can limit them.

If you make it ST5 then it includes fanatics, mummies and tomb guardians. You also need to decide if it would be done by starting strength or current strength otherwise it will include chaos warriors that gain +1 ST and exclude injured trolls that lose ST.

If you make it loner then you exclude halfing trees and ogre team ogres. It’s fine that these players lose loner on their own teams as they suck but can be unfair if it allows a team to have 4 big guys.

If you make it negatraits then you exclude the deathroller which is already the most problematic player in the game. Decay could be included as a negatrait too which would include tomb guardians and also rotters.

If you make it base size of the GW models then you include bull centaurs and could potentially include Tomb guardians as some may see them as a BB version of Ushabti from the Tomb Kings list.

I still think we should have done away with the silly primary, secondary and tertiary options and just make each roster have options from different races. The primary race would be as normal except without a big guy, the secondary would be the same but have half the positionals and be capped at 6 whilst the tertiary would be straight big guys so say up to 2 human ogres and wood elf treeman.

That way you can restrict the normal teams to 2 big guys, get rid of the deathroller and possibly allow rubbish teams that have a stunty primary race to have more.

I can see why the French proposal went through.